UO Second Age

Here's one I'm trying to do, using wrestling, fencing, and swordsmanship (can't lift maces yet) on a dummy to raise my stats. I thought about adding camping and herding as well (guess my tamer could bring an animal to the warriors guild)

Double click (0x40000E6C) (hit dummy with bare hands)
Pause 4.00sec
Lift Dagger (0F52) -1
Equip to 0x20196 (L: first valid)
Pause 4.00sec
Double Click (0x40000E6C) (hit dummy with dagger)
Pause 4.00sec
Lift Dagger (0F52) -1
Drop to (0x4065D08D) (@(78, 87, 0))
Pause 4.00sec
Lift 1 - 0x407407F5 (katana)
Equip to 0x20196 (L: first valid)
Pause 4.00sec
Double Click (0x40000E67) (hit the dummy with the katana)
Pause 4.00sec
Lift 1 0x4065D08D (@(59, 86, 0))
Pause 4.00sec

Well, this was working for a while, then for some reason it stopped. So, I figured I'd try something a little more simply, just a wrestling macro where I hit it, then wait for it to stop swinging, then hit it again. I recorded it, and my character just wouldn't hit the dummy, it said something about having an item in hand, I came back to this one and edited it, he just won't put the dagger back in his pack when using it.

I'm also wondering, can you wear out your weapon attacking a dummy? And, when I have "lift dagger" does that mean any dagger in my pack, so if it wears out my character will pick up another one?

Edit- figured it out....mostly, just dragging them to my pack near my paperdoll instead of in the pack itself, so guess it tries to put it at those coords. still wondering about questions in my last paragraph though.

My guess is you maxed out your skill. If you have no chance of gaining any more skill (wrestle) gains, you won’t get any more stat (strength) gains. The dummies cap out on skill at very low levels. Basically just enough so you won’t get slaughtered by cows or skeletons.

If you want to advance your skill gain, I’d suggest moving onto objects that hit back like skeletons.

If you want to advance your strength, then your best bet is to grab a sheperds crook and hit a stable. There you will use the skill herd on a gray animal every 1.1 seconds (dbl click shepards crook, click on gray animal, click on ground, then add a special construct delay for 1.1 seconds, and click loop). Since you can macro up the GM herding, you have lots of time to get strength gains. I frequently go from 30’s strength to 90’s or 100 (cap) in a couple of hours.

best to get 700 skill points by buying(training) skills from npcs...do NOT train herding, snoopig, camping if ur going for dexxer...for mage do NOT train camping, evalint, itemid, spiritspeak(in my own experience evalint and itemid have been great for int)...and u wanna ping pong these skills till only bout 10 skill points show real...the lower the skill/more chance u have to fail the skill, the better u gain stats(str, int, and dex)...if u dont know what i mean by ping ponging pm me and ill explain further
ps camping raises all 3 stats but does str and dex moreso than int

training magic resist (via fire field spell) is a great way to get some fast and easy intelligence. I usually yield 10-15 intelligence points in the 20 minutes it takes to get magic resist from zero to 55.

I have a couple of answers to the OP.

At the outset, I'll confirm what morgan1109 has said: the precise breakpoint is 25.0, shown; you will enjoy no skill more gains beyond that (rarely, you'll get a strength gain at the exact same time that you would have hit 25.0, and end up with 25.1. Rest assured: once your shown skill reaches >= 25.0, you will earn no more gains from dummies).

I wish to add emphasis to something else morgan said: with any skill, if your chance to gain skill is nil, your chance to gain stats is also nil (excepting only a <100.0 skill, "pointed-up", on a character who is already skill-capped. Also, you don't have to point any other skill down, in order to permit that skill to raise, to get stat-gain: if the skill is "trying" to raise, it will raise associated stats).

Otherwise, for one thing, I think the described approach is both unnecessary and over-complicated (I would do it thusly: first skill to 25.0, change weapon, next skill to 25.0, etc.), but maybe you were looking to macro overnight, and/or maybe "switch-it-up" to try to stimulate stat-gain. If you want to switch weapons (skills) for each swipe at the dummy, use razor to set-up "dress" profiles, and a macro that cycles through them after each hit.

All worthy praise to The Gods, but I vehemently disagree on this issue: a brand-new player does not need to beg/borrow/steal 2000ish gp to buy useless skills to fill the skill-cap prematurely, in order to train stats. BTW, no "ping-ponging" is required.

I'm not saying, "just play": I am saying, "use Razor and run all the macros you can while you train/play, including skills you have no desire to keep"; the character will be skill-capped in no time, and continued-work on desired skills will put stats (mostly) into place, to be finished-off with < 5 minutes of Herding.

Here's an example of "Use Razor", NPC-Paladin-sparring-EXTREME style: While hitting the NPC (Weapon and Tactics, 2 skills; if Parry is desired, let the NPC hit back, 3 skills), use-skill Anatomy/EvalInt/Tracking/Animal Lore/Detect/Forensic/Whatever on a suitable target (+1 skill), over the next 10 seconds bang a musical instrument 5x (+1 skill @ 5x "hits"), and stuff a fish-steak into an oven (Cooking, +1 skill), watch the NPC's hits and manually apply bandages (Healing, +1 skill); 6 different skills being called at least once every 10 seconds, with 4 of them being called 3-5 times, and a "dangling" 7th skill being called every 30-90 seconds ... EDIT: heck, drop 1 "hit" on the musical instrument to pick a lock ...

When I "fire-up" my multicrafstman, he churns-out a blacksmithy item, a bowcraft item, a carpentry item, and a tinkering item, 1 of each, every 10 seconds; if I had any need/desire on that character, I could add a cooking item and also use a "10-second-delay" skill. I will say it again: use Razor.

A brand-new player at the dummies should 3x(hit dummy, use instrument 3x @ 1.25 second delay; you might need to vary this, according to ping), then pause .25 seconds and activate any usable "10-second-delay" skill; loop.

Another suggestion for randale: for a quick, early stat-push, go "Gung-Ho Lumberjack Camping" for a little while (you can not do this unattended, though): start chopping up some logs and turn them into kindling, then activate a macro that hides, then makes kindling, and then 3-4x uses kindling, all in 10-seconds, and loop; continue to walk through the woods, chopping wood; you will need to exercise a little care in the timing of your wood-chopping.

Lumberjack and Camping will push your strength (Camping pushes all stats, but not equally), while Hiding should push your dexterity (at least while both dex and Hiding are low ...): you should see relatively significant gains in short-order, it's just too bad that you have to do so much manually ...

Good luck!

SS

Or... just follow my stat guide and have all 3 stats at whatever level you want in under 2 hours so you can get on with playing the game.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=64788

Simple, easy and fast. Done.

- Patek

Or you could use Matron deWinter's Defintive Stat Gain Guide.

After all, you do have a lot of options.

SS

SighelmofWyrmgard wrote:I have a couple of answers to the OP.

At the outset, I'll confirm what morgan1109 has said: the precise breakpoint is 25.0, shown; you will enjoy no skill more gains beyond that (rarely, you'll get a strength gain at the exact same time that you would have hit 25.0, and end up with 25.1. Rest assured: once your shown skill reaches >= 25.0, you will earn no more gains from dummies).

I wish to add emphasis to something else morgan said: with any skill, if your chance to gain skill is nil, your chance to gain stats is also nil (excepting only a <100.0 skill, "pointed-up", on a character who is already skill-capped. Also, you don't have to point any other skill down, in order to permit that skill to raise, to get stat-gain: if the skill is "trying" to raise, it will raise associated stats).

Otherwise, for one thing, I think the described approach is both unnecessary and over-complicated (I would do it thusly: first skill to 25.0, change weapon, next skill to 25.0, etc.), but maybe you were looking to macro overnight, and/or maybe "switch-it-up" to try to stimulate stat-gain. If you want to switch weapons (skills) for each swipe at the dummy, use razor to set-up "dress" profiles, and a macro that cycles through them after each hit.

All worthy praise to The Gods, but I vehemently disagree on this issue: a brand-new player does not need to beg/borrow/steal 2000ish gp to buy useless skills to fill the skill-cap prematurely, in order to train stats. BTW, no "ping-ponging" is required.

I'm not saying, "just play": I am saying, "use Razor and run all the macros you can while you train/play, including skills you have no desire to keep"; the character will be skill-capped in no time, and continued-work on desired skills will put stats (mostly) into place, to be finished-off with < 5 minutes of Herding.

Here's an example of "Use Razor", NPC-Paladin-sparring-EXTREME style: While hitting the NPC (Weapon and Tactics, 2 skills; if Parry is desired, let the NPC hit back, 3 skills), use-skill Anatomy/EvalInt/Tracking/Animal Lore/Detect/Forensic/Whatever on a suitable target (+1 skill), over the next 10 seconds bang a musical instrument 5x (+1 skill @ 5x "hits"), and stuff a fish-steak into an oven (Cooking, +1 skill), watch the NPC's hits and manually apply bandages (Healing, +1 skill); 6 different skills being called at least once every 10 seconds, with 4 of them being called 3-5 times, and a "dangling" 7th skill being called every 30-90 seconds ... EDIT: heck, drop 1 "hit" on the musical instrument to pick a lock ...

When I "fire-up" my multicrafstman, he churns-out a blacksmithy item, a bowcraft item, a carpentry item, and a tinkering item, 1 of each, every 10 seconds; if I had any need/desire on that character, I could add a cooking item and also use a "10-second-delay" skill. I will say it again: use Razor.

A brand-new player at the dummies should 3x(hit dummy, use instrument 3x @ 1.25 second delay; you might need to vary this, according to ping), then pause .25 seconds and activate any usable "10-second-delay" skill; loop.

Another suggestion for randale: for a quick, early stat-push, go "Gung-Ho Lumberjack Camping" for a little while (you can not do this unattended, though): start chopping up some logs and turn them into kindling, then activate a macro that hides, then makes kindling, and then 3-4x uses kindling, all in 10-seconds, and loop; continue to walk through the woods, chopping wood; you will need to exercise a little care in the timing of your wood-chopping.

Lumberjack and Camping will push your strength (Camping pushes all stats, but not equally), while Hiding should push your dexterity (at least while both dex and Hiding are low ...): you should see relatively significant gains in short-order, it's just too bad that you have to do so much manually ...

Good luck!

SS

Well, first of all, I'm not totally new, the character is new. What exactly is the benefit of skill capping quick? You want to be getting the stats that you want for what you want your character to be. If you want a dexxer you want Str and Dex, so if I'm building dex and str with skills I'm using when after I first start the character, I don't care about getting to the stat cap quick if I'm building stats that I want for my toon. Once you get to the cap you must decay other stats to build them on the other two, but I don't care if I haven't reached the cap yet as long as I am building the stats I want for my character..

Right now I'm running a macro on a character (not on this shard though) using musicianship, hiding, item ID, Spirit Speak and Detect Hidden for dex and int gains. Is it better to train one skill constantly in one macro or several of stats gaining skills in one second separated by pauses?

randale wrote:What exactly is the benefit of skill capping quick? You want to be getting the stats that you want for what you want your character to be.

I'll point you to MatronDeWinter's guide again, in which this is explained; Patek's guide follows exactly the same principles.

When one wants/needs to divert effort to raising only stats efficiently, one wants to be skill-capped: the best chances for stat-gain are when the skill being used is <10.0, and is "pointed-up" (with all other skills also "pointed-up", or locked); if you are skill-capped, your stats raise, but that skill never does, so you always will enjoy the best stat-gains.

The best skill for overall stat-gain is Herding; for a specific stat, you might choose a different skill.

Some people think that one needs to "see-saw", or "ping-pong": while skill-capped, let the stat-training-skill rise to 10.0, then "point it down", and switch to another stat-training-skill, "point that up", and raise that to 10.0, then reverse, and wash-rinse-repeat until you are satisfied with your stats. I can't say that "see-sawing" is not faster than "not-see-sawing" but, under my scheme, it pretty-much doesn't matter: < 5 minutes of Herding is < 5 minutes of Herding ... I can assure you that the stats will raise without any "see-sawing".

randale wrote:If you want a dexxer you want Str and Dex, so if I'm building dex and str with skills I'm using when after I first start the character, I don't care about getting to the stat cap quick if I'm building stats that I want for my toon. Once you get to the cap you must decay other stats to build them on the other two, but I don't care if I haven't reached the cap yet as long as I am building the stats I want for my character..

Okay, I sure didn't say anything about, "getting to the stat-cap", at all: I was talking about using Razor to push you to the skill-cap while you train/play your character so that, by the time your template is nearly finished, you are already skill-capped for any desired stat-training.

You also won't need that much stat-training, at this point, because all of that "extra" training will have also been pushing your stat-gain, all the while.

I see it as a "putting the cart before the horse" issue: both Matron and Patek advise, "as soon as you arrive, wave a magic wand over your starter-100gp to turn it into 6000gp, and then run-around buying yourself to skill-cap, and then spend 2-4 hours training nothing but stats until your stats are done, and then train/play your template"; I say, instead, "as soon as you arrive, start to train/play your template while using Razor to train anything/everything else imaginable, all the time, afk/not-afk, until you are skill-capped, and then finish off your stats".

By my math, my method must save almost 2-4 hours, and 6000gp (5900gp of which, btw, no new character even has ...)

Of course, "my method" wasn't possible on OSI ... Matron's/Patek's method goes all the way back to at least 1998.

randale wrote:Right now I'm running a macro on a character (not on this shard though) using musicianship, hiding, item ID, Spirit Speak and Detect Hidden for dex and int gains. Is it better to train one skill constantly in one macro or several of stats gaining skills in one second separated by pauses?

Back in the day, on OSI, there existed a lot of conjecture surrounding "switching it up" (whatever it was), in order to maximise gains: I never saw any evidence to support any such suggestion. Later (I think with UOR), anti-macroing code was introduced by OSI and, even later, GGS, so these ideas continued to circulate as players tried different methods to optimise their character-building.

UOSA uses the t2A ruleset and operational environment: there is no anti-macro code, here.

If that other shard employs anti-macro code, or similar stuff, that macro might just be the best macro for you to run (there): it would not be the best one here, though (for one thing, Spirit Speak is terrible, here, for Int gains ...): if you need to, read Matron's guide again, as it goes into great detail to explain how to use certain different skills simultaneously, and some others multiple-times in a 10-second span; the different types of skills are identified, to ease your planning.

Best skill (and stat) gains will be from pushing 1 "10-second delay" skill, while pushing multiple uses of "no-delay" skills at the very-same time: use as many skills at the same time, as many times as you possibly can, in any/every 10-second span; bear in mind that there is a 1-second action delay (and this is affected by ping), so you can only really cram 9 skill-uses into 10 seconds, max (a lot less if you have a really bad ping); certain items have their own delay (combat dummies swing for 3ish seconds, for example).

It looks to me as if you have "hit the ground running", here at UOSA: carry on.

SS

Ok, I think now I understand. So, you have a total of 47 skills (if I counted them correctly, some in razor aren't on this shard- enticement/bushido/necromancy,etc) They all start out real low or at 0.0, so if your method is using every skill until it gets to 10, that won't be enough to get to the skill cap, and also keep in mind that some require resources- like carpentry/blacksmithing/etc, the easier ones are herding etc, (which has a very short delay and needs nothing but a crook and an animal) or item ID/arms lore which only require one item to use. Which other ones do you raise past 10 to get to the cap. And, as you probably meant, you're getting stat gains as you use them, so when it's time to "see-saw" at the skill cap, you're already part of the way to maxing your stats.

Snooping seems good to raise dex, but you can't snoop your own bag to get gains, can you? You'll need another toon or a pack horse. To get to Delucia on your first toon you have to go through the passage from Trinsic yourself, or have someone with you that can help. Actually, you can go through the passage as a ghost, then res and then get what you need them, so you don't have to worry about safety. As for mining/herding can you totally automate this with a macro, or do you have to manually switch from mining to herding back and forth?

Hello, Randale,

Well, you don't quite understand, yet, and I'm not going to say it all again. What is written is clear and straight-forward: please, read it; or don't.

Here is a hint, that might clear up a little of the confusion: the "skill < 10.0" bit only applies to the "< 5 minutes of Herding" bit.

SS

Randale, just ignore Sigwhatever, you have it pretty much sorted.

Method one (slow and fiddly):
1. Use lots of different skills up to 10.0 (the super easy gains)
2. Once you've run out of easy gains, use Razor macros to push the high-stat-gain skills higher or "use your desired skills" to slowly raise stats.
3. Repeat 2 until desired stats are reached.

Method two (fast and simple [requires like 5,000-7,000gp that people will probably just give you if you ask]):
1. Buy skills from vendors till your 700.0 "real". Don't buy snooping, herding or camping.
2. See-Saw snooping, herding or camping from 0.0 to 10.0 up and down over and over using mine or Matron's guide.
3. Repeat 2 until you have desired stats in under 2 hours.

Just use my guide or Matron's guide and be done with it. Seriously, stats aren't that exciting and its more fun just sorting them and getting into the game.

Any questions let me know (PM here or on IRC).

Cheers


- Patek

Patek wrote:Method one (slow and fiddly):
1. Use lots of different skills up to 10.0 (the super easy gains)
2. Once you've run out of easy gains, use Razor macros to push the high-stat-gain skills higher or "use your desired skills" to slowly raise stats.
3. Repeat 2 until desired stats are reached.

Patek, you know perfectly well that this has never been what I have been saying: don't misrepresent my argument in your pointless efforts to discredit it.

I said:

"Use Razor (not 6000gp you don't even have) to hit the skill-cap, and you will gain stats in the process: Razor will fill your skill-cap long before you need to be concerned about pushing your stats; then, use Herding to fix your stats".

It's pretty simple, for anyone who bothers to read, to comprehend.

Randale can plead that he was in a hurry, and only skimmed it: say, Patek, what's your excuse, and ulterior motive?

SS

SighelmofWyrmgard wrote:Randale can plead that he was in a hurry, and only skimmed it: say, Patek, what's your excuse, and ulterior motive?

I didn't need to read it because you've crapped in more than one of my threads and in others with useless posts that amount to nothing more than empty overly-complicated word vomit and I'm tired of seeing you try and lead people astray because of some bizarre need you seem to have to sound intelligent.

Randale asked a question, multiple people answered it efficiently then you came along and did your wall-of-BS-text thing you do that added nothing to the situation. Find somewhere else to satisfy your deep-seeded desire to sound important/intellectual and leave helping people to those who actual want to help people.

- Patek

Patek wrote: I didn't need to read it because you've crapped in more than one of my threads

Thanks, that's all you had to say: you are prone to permitting a personal grudge unseat your thinking.

You need to keep your facts straight, sir: pointing to the truth is not "crapping in [someone's] thread"; here are the threads,

Thread 1: you "wrote a guide" that already existed (Matron's, 7 years ago, and linked in the Master Guide List) --detailing a defunct methodology from 1997 that every 12-year-old-then-knew-- and claimed it for your own; in response to "your" guide, I politely pointed-out that we can use Razor in the 21st century, as I have done in this thread ... Here you have the gall to accuse someone/anyone else of "overcomplicated word vomit" or having a "bizarre need to sound intelligent" !... ?... !...

Thread 2: I called you to task for criticizing a vendor, claiming that his auction was "bad" because "you had been denied the opportunity to continue to try to rip him off". You had a temper-tantrum over that one.

Now, here, still blinded by the prejudice of your old grudge, you willfully misrepresent my arguments, cast unsubstantiated aspersions against my integrity and demean my character, and can not even be bothered to refer to me by name.

There is a person in this thread who is impolite, can't be bothered to abide by the rules of dialogue, freely casts false aspersions, succumbs to frequent temper-tantrums, and insists on characterizing his own aspires-to-be-intellectual public masturbation as "helping" and "wanting to help people": it isn't me.

Maybe you should sit in a corner and have a "time-out": your tantrums certainly aren't getting you anywhere.

SS