UO Second Age

It's that time of year again!

Remake your jacked up chars with these lovely renovating miracle deeds:

NCDs - 3x small deeds

Hair Restyles - 2x small deeds

Beard Cream - 1x small deed

Happy gaming!

how many beard creams you got?

Drunk'n Disorder wrote:how many beard creams you got?

Probably like 4-5. They spawn like clock work, so I have them left over and they are hidden in little bags somewhere in my keep.

Not entirely sure but its around that.

I'll take all the beard creams

I'll trade you hair restyles for beard creams 1 for 1

I already accepted the vendor's offer

Mens Rea wrote:I already accepted the vendor's offer

Lol this isn't an auction... He's not obligated to sell to you just because you posted something in his thread.

Drunk'n Disorder wrote:

Mens Rea wrote:I already accepted the vendor's offer

Lol this isn't an auction... He's not obligated to sell to you just because you posted something in his thread.

I didn't say it was an auction.

The vendor (Taboo) offered to sell the beard cream/s at house deed each.

The buyer (me) told him I accept his offer.

I'm not sure one can become obligated in any other way than offer and acceptance on the trade forum.

If I advertise something on Craigslist and someone sends me a message saying they'll buy it at asking price. And someone else sends a message offering more than asking, I am not obligated to take the first offer. This is simple shit man, it's not Amazon.com

Drunk'n Disorder wrote:If I advertise something on Craigslist and someone sends me a message saying they'll buy it at asking price. And someone else sends a message offering more than asking, I am not obligated to take the first offer. This is simple shit man, it's not Amazon.com

Actually, yes you are.

Acceptance of an offer to the world at large is enforceable against other offers, even if they are valid, that come later in time than the initial acceptance. In the real world we call this a 'contract'. In the real world, if you sold your item to the private buyer then the original buyer would sue you for the difference between what they eventually have to pay and the contract price between you and them.

In furtherance of this position, if Taboo did not want to make an offer that could be accepted he could have had an auction or said "selling these items, PM me and we will negotiate."

Mens is so butthurt lol whoever needs beard creams just lmk

Actually Mens Rea, advertising an item at a price is only legally considered an invitation to do business and they are not obliged to sell it at that price.

In the USA, a contract requires an offer, acceptance, and consideration. By saying you will buy something at an advertised price, it is YOU who are making the offer, based on the consideration being the item in question. It is up to the seller to decide if they will accept your offer. The laws are very similar in the EU as well.

Here, I thought a case law review involving Pepsi points for a Harrier fighter jet would be up your alley: http://scholarship.law.missouri.edu/cgi ... ontext=mlr

see also: http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/busine ... offer.html

While I dispute the notion that Taboo is an advertiser or that his post is an advertisement, even if it is in fact an advertisement the facts surrounding this case rebut the presumption [of your silly American laws].

Here, let me quote some random American legal site (albeit probably more reliable than the findlaw.com article you refer to) which outlines the test for rebutting the presumption:

When Can an Advertisement Be Considered an Offer? http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/a ... ments.html

An advertisement may be considered a valid offer if it has the following three elements:

It is sufficiently definite in its terms (e.g. descriptions, quality, quantity, & price);
It is communicated to a specific person or persons (usually limited group of people);
The circumstances surrounding the publication show that the advertiser has the intent to enter into a contract.

The main factor that most courts look at is whether the parties had the intent to assume legal responsibility of entering into a contract. However, different courts have different ways in dealing with this issue.
When Can an Advertisement’s Offer Be Legally Enforceable?

Many courts will look at the objective manifestation of the advertiser’s intent. In other words, the court will consider whether a reasonable person would read the advertisement and believe that the advertiser intended to form an agreement. The circumstances of the case are also considered. For example, an advertisement which offers a cow to farmers in exchange for fifty dollars won’t be taken seriously in a major city. The same advertisement in a rural area, however, might be a legal offer.

Other courts might consider whether the plaintiff, the party bringing the lawsuit, had actually accepted the offer made by the advertiser. A party accepts an offer when the party acts in a manner intended to fulfill his or her end of the bargain. For example, Joe sees an advertisement which asks college students to send in their used books in exchange for cash. Joe, a college student, accepts the offer if Joe sends his used books to the advertiser.

However, some offers require a specific method of accepting an offer, a method which excludes all other methods of accepting an offer. For example, if Joe sees an advertisement which asks college students to register so that they can send their used books in exchange for cash, Joe must register in order to accept the offer. Sending in the books will not be a valid form of acceptance.

- See more at: http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/a ... jbr1A.dpuf

Taboo's offer is definitive (provision of beard deed, in exchange of consideration of house deed)
It is to a class of people (those who play UOSA, members of a forum, in the rares section)
Taboo is undoubtedly intending to sell (no qualification on the terms of the offer)

I look forward to completing this deal with Taboo.

You fail on the second element. The UOSA forums is too large to be a limited group or a specific person. The last case I read, the offer was made to 5 people. That was considered a specific group (it may have changed lately, and a court may determine it to be a larger number). The UOSA forums has many members, and the whole world can potentially join! I doubt the court would determine it satisfies the second element.

Had he said, "First come, first served!" that would have made a world of difference. Or if he had said a precise quantity he had and he had said a time and date to accept by. His terms have to be clear, definite, and complete to rebut the presumption that advertisements are invitations and not offers!

Let me bring another dose of sanity into this discussion.

Trading post, is for trading. Taboo has items listed for sale. Taboo can sell those items, or not.

1) Taboo can practice common courtesy and sell to the only buyer who has made an offer matching his listed criterion for beard creams (Mens Rea).

2) Taboo can adopt a socialist type ideology and split the sale/barter of his items equally out to all buyers. Everybody's a winner!

3) Taboo can refuse to sell/barter to somebody on this thread, e.g. Drunk'n Disorder or Mens Rea.

4) Taboo can sell to a private buyer, this is clearly a non-binding advertisement.

5) Buyers can change their mind about buying items from Taboo since this is not an auction (with a buyout) or a contract; e.g. buying beard creams from Capitalist even though he has kind of hijacked Taboo's thread rudely -- advertising for himself. Pretty sure this violates the intention of this forum of discussion.

6) Taboo can change his mind about selling these items.

7) Taboo can do whatever else Taboo wants with his items.

Mens Rea, to respond to your claim directly. In short, this isn't a contract because you haven't paid for any item or services rendered yet, and this is not an auction with a buyout (acceptance requires two people in common law, e.g. a handshake, delivery of payment, express or implied agreement, a signature).

From Wikipedia (United States contract law): An offer is a display of willingness by a promissor to be legally bound by terms they specify, made in a way that would lead a reasonable person in the promisee's position to understand that an acceptance is being sought and, if made, results in an enforceable contract. Ordinarily, an offeror is permitted to revoke their offer at any time prior to a valid acceptance. This is partially due to the maxim that an offeror is the "master of his offer."

Differences Between an Advertisement and a Unilateral Contract: "...an advertisement typically does not constitute an offer to fulfill a contracted obligation; instead, it is an offer to establish a unilateral contract. An advertisement allows the party making the offer to revoke its willingness to enter into a contract. "

Can The Advertiser Withdraw an Offer If An Advertisement Is Considered An Offer?
"An offer is revocable unless the advertiser has already received a benefit or unless the other party has already acted in reliance upon the offer. For example, an advertisement which promises medical treatment for cancer patients will be revocable unless the advertiser has already received payment from the patient."

On the other hand, to provide a couple of examples of where Taboo not selling you items would be a violation valid agreement includes at the following cases:

1) Express agreement: In this case Taboo would promise to sell said items on a first come first serve basis, or in a specified time period to a buyer(s) (e.g. an auction with a buyout). Then refuses to sell said items. This is a violation of an express agreement.

2) Implied agreement: In the case Taboo agreed to meet you at a bank, and then refused to sell you the items after receiving another offer in PM. This is a violation of an implied agreement based on Taboo's behavior, any reasonable person would assume Taboo was going to sell you said item(s).