Era accuracy discussion: Account Limits

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Wise
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Era accuracy discussion: Account Limits

Post by Wise »

This was a topic of discussion 8 months or so ago here

http://forum.uosecondage.com/viewtopic. ... 3&start=30

nothing much has been talked about on this topic since then
Second Age devotes itself to the T2A era however allowing players to multiclient, ruining gameplay. Ultima Online was designed for a player to roleplay a character, establish relationships with others, and serve a role in the community. However allowing 3 clients at the same time, totally makes this game too easy, risk free, and no real community. Any character can gain skills off his other character. Where is the adventure, risk or even FUN in that? If you want to have 7xGM skills, 225 stats instantly, there are servers that offer that. However, the true UO Fans, the old school gamers, respect and understand the gameplay. They don't want AFK macroers. They want what the game originally meant. Risk and adventure. Crafting is pointless now, to an extent. Allowing 3 clients at the same time, means instead of 1000 ingots an hour, you can get 3000. Not to mention 3 clients, means 15 characters (105 GM skills EVEN though there are only 55 total) Where is the need for that many characters or need to have multiple characters on at the same time? Are people that lazy? Where is fun in stealing from your other character knowing it's safe just to raise your skill. Go buy a pack horse and steal from it. It's a little riskier. "Oh no!! My Red just died, let me get my blue character to come res him." Weird... no pride, no skill required, no risk, no adventure. Multi clienting eliminates the soul essence of this game. We need to make the appropriate fix... and that's making it a 1 client server. True UO fans, the ones who loved the old times, understand and respect where I am coming from. Some admit to being lazy. "It does take the fun out of the game, but it's easier to gain skills off another one of my characters that doesn't hit back." What happened to sparring?! That is what guilds are for. But you really don't need a guild if you can have and make everything on your own with multiple clients... I suppose... "Oh no, I just got PKed!! let me Alt Tab to my other client and come get my belongings, kill the PK and rez my player before it's too late." PATHETIC.... If you can't handle losing what you have, don't have it on you. That is the purpose of this game. THAT is why the game was ruined, with insurance, blessing deeds for everything. EA eliminated the risk. I am dedicated to this era in UO. And Second Age can do it. Making it a 1 client maximum is a big step in making this happen. I could go on with reasons why it will be better, but would get too long.

I have personally discussed this topic with various members of the UOSA community, the allowance of 3 accounts does limit some of the era accuracy, to quote Senses, he said
On OSI you used to make a crafter to make a profit and get rich, here it seems that you get rich and then make a crafter
For example Kegs in this shard, its hard if not impossible to compete with keg prices, because players have created a market of kegs which are sold for break even prices, and selling them for more either dont sell or you get a lot of flack from customers, other things like Ingots, and even character building the amount of AFK macroers is astonishing! Not to mention 2nd, 3rd and even 4th & 5th accounts are being abused in the manor or ghosts camping IDOCs and PK/Guild Ghosts camping multiple Dungeons waiting for players, which is highly discouraging for PvMers, holding 10 - 15 housing spots ,not to mention various other multi account "exploits" that were not as readily used on OSI (while some players had 2 - 3+ accounts it wasn't common place)


My proposal to Era Accuracy is

Limit 1 free account per person (allow the transfer/deletion of characters to a single account for a time period duration)
Allow players to donate a set some of USD a month for and the donation reward would be the use of another account up to 3 total

I feel this is the best solution, players get a era accurate feel with singleton accounts and playability, and the server & shard benefit from a more stable donation routine,

Discuss!!
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Re: Era accuracy discussion: Account Limits

Post by Clark_Kent »

Even if macroing, multiclienting, etc were to be restricted to OSI standards, there is no way to make a completely era accurate server. The biggest missing element for all of us is the fact that very few of us are real newbies. We all know the ropes for the most part, and therefor are for the most part power gamers / meta gamers. There are no bumbling idiots roving the server experiencing the game for the first time to populate the world with a variety. Therefor, I think it makes sense to have multiclienting (to an extent), and especially macroing--we've all put in our dues on grinding out this stuff (mostly) legitimately 10 years ago.

And as Var pointed out in irc, multiboxing / multiaccounting was a part of this era, I personally ran two accounts at that time on Sonoma, granted one account was a counselor one.
Last edited by Clark_Kent on Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Era accuracy discussion: Account Limits

Post by Brodie »

What do you propose happens to accounts people already have characters on though?

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Re: Era accuracy discussion: Account Limits

Post by Jaster »

Its not really about having more than 1 account, its about being able to use more than 1 account at a time, but the problem with this has always been 2 or more people living in the same house hold.
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Re: Era accuracy discussion: Account Limits

Post by Wise »

Brodie wrote:What do you propose happens to accounts people already have characters on though?

accounts with characters can be moved into 1 account (or more if your willing to pay)

I never said muli accounts were not allowed on OSI I said they were not as common because not everyone could afford a 2nd or 3nd account per month, and while yes ALOT of us are Old time UOers there are still just as many new to the game players or players who haven't played in 8+ years and I agree there is NO way to truely make a shard era accurate, because this is not the era, but we can keep tweaking and trying to come close to replicating that feeling, because era accuracy was based on more then just controlable server features, it was the people dedicated to the game, the crafters who Craft to play not PvPers who have so much money they make a crafter to have the cheapest vendor, among many other player aspects of the era not server ones...
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Re: Era accuracy discussion: Account Limits

Post by Senses »

As much as I would love this change; As much as I think its the one thing that will always be the thorn in the side of any real attempt at Era Accuracy; As much as I think it really destroys many parts of the metagame and depth that this game has, I just can't bring myself to say, lets force everyone down to one account. This is another case where I wish beyond wishing that Derrick had made the call back on day 1, but for whatever reason that may have seemed perfectly logical at the time, he didn't, and I strongly believe that to try to do it now, would be tantamount to wiping the server.

So maybe another server or another time, someone will get it right, but as flawed as this server is, even if it means people will periodically show up here and rejoice in the illusion of era accuracy, only to realize a couple months in that it can never be, it is still the best thing going, and the closest to the thing we really want. So, it is what it is.
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Re: Era accuracy discussion: Account Limits

Post by Wise »

you do make very sound points senes, could it be a slow transition process perhaps? to happen over a long period of time? or indeed figure a way to limit the use of clients to 1 per IP maybe indeed that is the middle road, allowing 3 accounts but limiting IP usage with the increase of clients per IP via a donation of a monthly fee.. perhaps that would be more accurate
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Re: Era accuracy discussion: Account Limits

Post by malice-tg »

disagree with the premise completely. especially since i multi cliented during era.

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Re: Era accuracy discussion: Account Limits

Post by RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR »

It's obviously a legitimate point, TG, if you want multiple accounts again you can donate thats what the OP stated.
there is no way to make a completely era accurate server
There's some ongoing discussion about modding RunUO to support the out of the box T2A CD (Without razor of course but possibly old UOA versions). Don't look for it right away though.
I believe this would about do it.
The biggest missing element for all of us is the fact that very few of us are real newbies

Theres still some newbs, but the thing that draws you to the game isn't that its fresh but that its fun and consistently so, but if you want to be a newbie again you can try drinking some gasoline.


We all know the ropes for the most part, and therefor are for the most part power gamers / meta gamers. There are no bumbling idiots roving the server experiencing the game for the first time to populate the world with a variety. Therefor, I think it makes sense to have multiclienting (to an extent), and especially macroing--we've all put in our dues on grinding out this stuff (mostly) legitimately 10 years ago

I don't see why that if most players are smart it is a reason for multiclienting, and there will still be macroing so you wont grind anymore than you do.

it was the people dedicated to the game, the crafters who Craft to play not PvPers who have so much money they make a crafter to have the cheapest vendor, among many other player aspects of the era not server ones

Yeah everyone having 3 clients open definitely makes it feel different.

This is another case where I wish beyond wishing that Derrick had made the call back on day 1, but for whatever reason that may have seemed perfectly logical at the time, he didn't, and I strongly believe that to try to do it now, would be tantamount to wiping the server

Your right, I would still play even if they wiped the server ( I like making new characters :) ), but if your going to do something this big I guess the only way to do it is just apply it and hope for the best, the thing about letting your other characters come on your one account would work well to.


Overall I'm fine either way, I mean it is more accurate for people who don't want to pay to have 1 account, but I'm content.

Is it legal to charge for accounts after the first?

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Re: Era accuracy discussion: Account Limits

Post by Pac »

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR wrote:Is it legal to charge for accounts after the first?
I'd imagine EA's legal department would have a thing or two to say about someone else charging to play UO.

Might be able to pull off some gray-area "pay for forums access and get a free UO account" bullshit or something like that.

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Re: Era accuracy discussion: Account Limits

Post by Wise »

from what I have read, charging to play for a server is where you get into trouble, but thats out right charging, with this if you dont want to pay a cent and play UO you can 1 free account and go nuts, now no one is to say that for a donation of 5$ you are giving a reward "thank you" of an addition IP allowance, this is legal, its no different then saying if you give us 20 UDS we will give you 1 million gold, and that is definitely happening
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Re: Era accuracy discussion: Account Limits

Post by malice-tg »

yes but this doesnt matter because people multi cliented on osi
and others had multiple computers going (myself) with two displays.

i just think the foundation of the argument is flawed because its not true.

its also "alot" of work to do something that isnt accurate, and won't be popular.

so i dont see any reason to do it.

although im all for theoretical discussions. the % of people mult client is def higher on uosa but so are alot of things. if you want to have the one client experience then just man up and do it yourself. you can show us how its done and make a guild that owns and single clients as a rule of membership.

not everything needs to be hardwired to be changed.

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Re: Era accuracy discussion: Account Limits

Post by Wise »

Malice I think your not looking past your own personal experiences... we are talking 1999 I don't know very many people who even had 2 monitors in 1999 if you did you were lucky, damn lucky! (2x CRT monitors were crazy!) and again I never said multi clienting wasn't era accurate, I am saying that the amount of people who multi client and making a donation for the 2nd and 3nd account privileges to do so is no different then on OSI, those who could/can afford the extra accounts bought them, and those who couldn't made due with 1 account, and those who couldn't severely out numbered those who could.. I have talked to a lot of people and most who remember that era had one account or had one account and used a friends account with a character made on it but most never paid for a 2nd account much less a 3rd, and this is what's not era accurate... so there is no arguing with 100% of the population having between 2 - 6 accounts is not close to accurate thus brining the market and economy accuracy of T2A era further away from accurate.
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Re: Era accuracy discussion: Account Limits

Post by RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR »

Woot lets line Derricks pockets!

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Re: Era accuracy discussion: Account Limits

Post by malice-tg »

Wise wrote:Malice I think your not looking past your own personal experiences... we are talking 1999 I don't know very many people who even had 2 monitors in 1999 if you did you were lucky, damn lucky! (2x CRT monitors were crazy!) and again I never said multi clienting wasn't era accurate, I am saying that the amount of people who multi client and making a donation for the 2nd and 3nd account privileges to do so is no different then on OSI, those who could/can afford the extra accounts bought them, and those who couldn't made due with 1 account, and those who couldn't severely out numbered those who could.. I have talked to a lot of people and most who remember that era had one account or had one account and used a friends account with a character made on it but most never paid for a 2nd account much less a 3rd, and this is what's not era accurate... so there is no arguing with 100% of the population having between 2 - 6 accounts is not close to accurate thus brining the market and economy accuracy of T2A era further away from accurate.
wise no offense meant.

i understand your point. I just disagree.

I am basing my statements on my experience and that of the core of PVP community on catskills osi. almost every good pvp'er had more than one account.

when you post something like this the point is to hear what people think. i think it is fine the way it is now.

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