Long overdue Halberd Cycling Video Tutorial-how to get good

[the bazookas]

https://youtu.be/WHgY7BpnOoI

I hope to see a significant improvement in the competitiveness of new folk entering the PvP scene (and even many vets could probably do better at this mechanic than they are )

I think this is one of the most important skills to share with new players on UOSA so they don't get pwned all the time, and with this tutorial, I think everybody can learn / practice it reasonably quickly.

Share this with people who don't cycle or are bad at it

[Boondock_Saint]

Good work.

[Halbu]

Hally cycling is important to know how to do but it's not the end all be all that everyone seems to think(look at how mages have 15 mana, yet continue to dex each other down, wasting heals on damage that is quickly nullified by the hally spam anyway). In fact, trying to play more like a dexer(50% chance to hit) decreases your skill and chance of winning the fight in a timely manner.

Hally spamming(instead of choosing spells wisely and timing them correctly) takes whatever control you have in the fight away because no matter how good you are you can't control how often the hally hits. So I ask, what is the use of playing like a dexer when you can play more intelligently as a mage? A mage must have mana to fight effectively, so you must learn to counter "hally spammers"(aka dex monkeys) instead of mutually hally spamming them back. Many pvpers think they are getting somewhere by doing lots of damage by continually hally spamming their opponent, actually the fight takes an unnecessarily longer time to end and is very boring to watch similar to seeing 2 dex monkeys 1v1.

People often ask me how it is possible to defeat someone without hally spamming equally as much as the opponent does. Only people that have seen me kill someone 1v5, 1v4, 1v3 know how this is possible, but many fail to execute these tactics without lots of practice.

Good video though Bazooka, was very necessary.

[chumbucket]

Super nice work. You should open a UOSA school for those new to UOSA pvp, charge 50k per student for a set of classes OR 20k per class.

[Ragancy]

Hally cycling is important to know how to do but it's not the end all be all that everyone seems to think(look at how mages have 15 mana, yet continue to dex each other down, wasting heals on damage that is quickly nullified by the hally spam). In fact, trying to play more like a dexer(50% chance to hit) decreases your skill and chance of winning the fight in a timely manner.

Hally spamming(instead of choosing spells wisely and timing them correctly) takes whatever control you have in the fight away because no matter how good you are you can't control how often the hally hits. So I ask, what is the use of playing like a dexer when you can play more intelligently as a mage? A mage must have mana to fight decently, but without learning to counter "hally spammers"(aka dex monkeys) you must learn to juke instead of continuing to mutually hally spam. Many pvpers think they are getting somewhere by doing lots of damage by continually hally spamming their opponent, actually the fight takes forever and is very boring to watch similar to a dex monkey fight.

People often ask me how it is possible to defeat someone without hally spamming equally as much as the opponent does. Only people that have seen me kill someone 1v5, 1v4, 1v3 know how this is possible, but many fail to execute these tactics without lots of practice.

The fact that you kill people 1v3,4,5 has nothing to do with hally cycling. That's usually called getting lucky with a ex/eb/pot/hally or whatever other combo you're using.

Knowing how to effectively cycle a hally can ONLY help you. You've talked about timing and not playing like a dexer. I agree with you to some extent, but if you do that AND cycle perfectly, then you're better off. Generally the person w/ the most hally swings wins.

[the bazookas]

Hally cycling is important to know how to do but it's not the end all be all that everyone seems to think(look at how mages have 15 mana, yet continue to dex each other down, wasting heals on damage that is quickly nullified by the hally spam anyway). In fact, trying to play more like a dexer(50% chance to hit) decreases your skill and chance of winning the fight in a timely manner.

Hally spamming(instead of choosing spells wisely and timing them correctly) takes whatever control you have in the fight away because no matter how good you are you can't control how often the hally hits. So I ask, what is the use of playing like a dexer when you can play more intelligently as a mage? A mage must have mana to fight effectively, so you must learn to counter "hally spammers"(aka dex monkeys) instead of mutually hally spamming them back. Many pvpers think they are getting somewhere by doing lots of damage by continually hally spamming their opponent, actually the fight takes an unnecessarily longer time to end and is very boring to watch similar to seeing 2 dex monkeys 1v1.

People often ask me how it is possible to defeat someone without hally spamming equally as much as the opponent does. Only people that have seen me kill someone 1v5, 1v4, 1v3 know how this is possible, but many fail to execute these tactics without lots of practice.

Good video though Bazooka, was very necessary.

Let's duel I'm 5 months rusty, though heh.

I love fighting 2 v Me... the only way I have found to successfully do that with the terribad gear that I carry (NPC pots except Gheals, GM hally) is to cycle flawlessly and to (like Ragancy said) get lucky with 1 or 2 offensive spells (which you are lucky to cast successfully without being interrupted).

But yea, flawless cycling in 1v1 is an enormous advantage, too.

[Halbu]

Forgive the wall of text.

Knowing how to effectively cycle a hally can ONLY help you. You've talked about timing and not playing like a dexer. I agree with you to some extent, but if you do that AND cycle perfectly, then you're better off. Generally the person who gets the most hally swings in wins.

Yes, of course everyone needs to know how to hally cycle and understanding the mechanic completely helps a lot. But this doesn't mean mages should attempt to pvp like a dexer the whole fight, sacrificing their mana which is the main source of their damage. This also doesn't mean that mages should pretend like the meditation skill doesn't exist, instead we should see both mages trying to meditate throughout the fight if their mana gets too low. Having more mana means less luck and more control for a mage, this is a fact.

Let's assume 2 mages are perfect at hally spamming. By mutually hally spamming the whole time, both mages generally have less mana than they would otherwise, during the WHOLE duration of a 1v1 fight. And even worse, if one pvper gets many consecutive hits in a row then his opponent is forced to waste tons of mana on heals. Therefore he's already so behind in mana before a single offensive spell has even been casted.

It's funny to me as a mage to see a 1v1 and one guy is obviously so low on mana(proved by eval int), but still he is as aggressively trying to win the fight by hally spamming as he was at the beginning of the fight. Never caring to gain any mana and not even stopping to meditate for 2 seconds, is this how they would fight a dexer? Just keep hally whacking him while you have 20 mana, you'll win! pfft.

Whoever hits more often forces his opponent to waste more mana on heals, this is also why people won't even attempt any spell combos or "timing". Mana is seen as too scarce that mages won't drop a spell unless the hally did some damage first. This is completely different to the way people pvped in 1999, "hally spam pvp" is limited in how effective it can be. It's like dex monkeys, they're good but a very limited good.

Even the best pvpers can only be so good when they play like a dexer, why does it take the "best pvpers" so long to defeat even mediocre pvpers that they've killed many times before? Because they put their faith in lucky swings and not strategy or spell timing like mages did in 1999.

[the bazookas]

Given the way things are on UOSA at this time, I think it's safe to say that without a working knowledge of hally cycling, you are at a severe disadvantage in terms of PvP--hence this tutorial... which I hope nobody will ignore in spite of the philosophical arguments against it .

But hey, since we're getting philosophical and this thread will probably turn into a discussion about the NEA cycling mechanic, off we go :

I don't remember T2A duels all that well; obviously cycling wasn't a part of them and it is a NEA (not era-accurate for the new-folk) mechanic... Dial-up connections were part of the equation too, though. On UOSA without hally cycling, I can't imagine duels would get any shorter; I think they'd last until mana became an issue either way, particularly given that there is no immediate spell damage on UOSA outside of harm (you can practically start a Gheal at the same time your enemy unleashes an energy bolt and not be interrupted), as well as the power of mini-heal (which I don't remember ever using in the OSI T2A era). I just don't think there is a way to deal damage fast enough on UOSA without hally cycling given those mechanics and the super good connections we have. Katanas would certainly enter the picture again (whereas they currently aren't a substantial part of the PvP picture on UOSA for tank mages), but again, I think it would still end up being a matter of mana conservation and DPS (and luck with hits). I could be wrong, but that's what I think. Don't forget that spellcasting is luck based too in terms of how much damage is done.

Furthermore, I think that being smart with spellcasting on UOSA is just as important as it was on OSI--it's just that it's used differently than it would be with era-accurate swing mechanics.

I can say (again) that I believe given the fact that the timing involved in hally cycling does take skill to master and execute (in addition to managing mana/spellcasting)--more, I'm sure, than throwing on a katana and chasing somebody around with it for a while--that I actually like the mechanic.

[Halbu]

Let's duel I'm 5 months rusty, though heh.

Sure, and I'm rusty too. I'll PM a time somewhat soon.


More deep wall of text discussion below:

, particularly given that there is no immediate spell damage on UOSA outside of harm (you can practically start a Gheal at the same time your enemy unleashes an energy bolt and not be interrupted), as well as the power of mini-heal (which I don't remember ever using in the OSI T2A era).

That's why spells must be timed, I won't go into detail or give any example athough. As I've said before in a few posts when discussing mastery of spells, combos, timing, when to fast cast ect. Why the heck should I even give out my secrets lol, I don't want other people becoming powerful wizards while I'm on my break getting rusty

Given the way things are on UOSA at this time, I think it's safe to say that without a working knowledge of hally cycling, you are at a severe disadvantage in terms of PvP--hence this tutorial... which I hope nobody will ignore in spite of the philosophical arguments against it

Indeed, your effort is well appreciated because it can help the pvp community grow.

But hey, since we're getting philosophical and this thread will probably turn into a discussion about the NEA cycling mechanic, off we go

Aye. It is NEA, but I like the current mechanics as it is enough to not care much. There's so many different ways to play templates on UOSA that many people are not aware of. Some pvp tactics are only able to be done because of mechanics particular to UOSA's, which is great as it adds even more variety.

On UOSA without hally cycling, I can't imagine duels would get any shorter; I think they'd last until mana became an issue either way,

One things for certain, everyone would generally have more mana throughout fights(1v1's, 2v2's ect.). This means more chances to be liberal with spells, which is more fun overall. The main thing that drains mana so much in fights is dexers, which many mages resemble today thanks to the hally cycle bug being exploited. So without hally cycling, mage fights would certainly be quicker once people relearned the pvp and used spells effectively. Timing, strategy, fast casting, spell choice, when to use the hally hit, when to use tab become more important than using the hally. And yet, the hally is obviously important. Even when someone pvps "more like a mage" and doesn't rely on the hally as much, the hally is absolutely important because it's impossible to kill anyone without at least 1 good hally hit. Often you even need 2 decent hally hits during a succession of spells.

as well as the power of mini-heal (which I don't remember ever using in the OSI T2A era). I just don't think there is a way to deal damage fast enough on UOSA without hally cycling given those mechanics and the super good connections we have

The reason mini heal wasn't used as much in T2a era is because mages didn't pvp like the mages currently do on UOSA. Mini heal is supposed to be used against dexers since kryss, katana, broadswords hit so fast. On UOSA a mage usually only mini heals when he has no choice. An example is whenever someone is hally+harm spamming, casting gheal could mean certain death if the player was already low on HP.

Mini heal isn't as imbalanced or hard to counter as people make it out to be, the problem is people rely on the hally so much and are afraid to drop a 6th circle spells unless they get a good hally hit first(maybe they feel their mana pool is too low to do that?). This means they have less chance of nullifying a mini heal because the hally only swings 50% of the time and can't nullify a gheal effectively. So it's better to cast a 6th circle spell to nullify mini heals as soon as you see a mini heal being casted, it's actually one of the only ways to effectively nullify mini heal spam. 6th circle is really good at even taking out a gheal and sometimes dealing more damage than it healed. Then follow up the e bolt or FS with a hally hit(or harm depending on what they cast or do) since the hally will be ready by that time. Spells can't be juked nor dodged(and if they run, it gives your hally time to charge and whatever spell you currently have casted and "he'd will now be able to be fast-casted, chasing can give you an advantage if you're a good pvper). And even with GM resist, spells aren't resisted very often so they are a good choice in a fight more often than not. Gambling with the hally drains mana faster than casting offensive spells, all the more reason to be alittle more liberal with that mana eh?

Katanas would certainly enter the picture again (whereas they currently aren't a substantial part of the PvP picture on UOSA for tank mages), but again, I think it would still end up being a matter of mana conservation and DPS (and luck with hits). I could be wrong, but that's what I think. Don't forget that spellcasting is luck based too in terms of how much damage is done.

Definitely agree katanas, war axes, q staffs would all be used if the hally cycle bug was fixed. Mana conservation will always be a part of pvp with hally cycle or not. The difference I see though, is that without hally cycle, since the hally will be used less this means mages will have more mana. If someone runs out of mana and gets themselves killed cause they can't heal then that's their fault for not being smart with the spell casting. That's part of the skill, but if a mages pvp style revolves around a 50% chance to hit then part of the skill is gone from mana conservative. It's not always someones fault that they have to waste mana on constantly healing a barrage of hally hits while they themselves miss their attacks. Especially in a duel ring when both opponents are forced to be hit by their attacker since there's no room to juke effectively(especially for bad pings like mine). There's little chance of using meditation, that's a bummer since meditation costs 100 skill points to be effective.

Furthermore, I think that being smart with spellcasting on UOSA is just as important as it was on OSI--it's just that it's used differently than it would be with era-accurate swing mechanics.

Absolutely, and this is what seperates the good from the mediocre even now for the most part. My main concern is that, even now, the best players can get screwed over by just alittle bad luck more often than they would in true 1999 due to better mechanics and different pvp tactics overall. UOSA's are still damn close though, I am not complaining.

[the bazookas]

It would be very interesting to see what it's like to play UOSA without the cycling mechanic

[Nickodemuse]

Bump! Video is off youtube now, some vet please post new one, bazookas vid is how i learned!

[Drunk Ninja]

https://youtu.be/WHgY7BpnOoI

[ultra]

@

[the bazookas]

Dexxers can hally cycle too, ridiculously fast actually, if you are good. My favorite build to play was a med dexer. Agility pots and reasonably high dex plus reasonably high healing and resist (i think he was like 4x GM) was full of win.

[Orion GM B^D]

Good to see the bazookas in the forums!!
Not to forget some of the other vets in this post
Brings back memories of my 1st year on UOSA.

Cheers to the bazookas!