A programme to ensure we are all playing the same game.

[Moppety]

Dunno why I'm feeding, hands up if you have a smart phone or tablet or a laptop as well as a pc even a pos laptop 5 years old. Guess what 99% say aye. O look they all can run VoIP, irc, websites. Idea fail..... Nose dive..... Don't pass go! Pls shoot urself.

[testuseraccount]

[testuseraccount]

Moppety, you are right; people have things like that, but like mentioned before: If people were to aquire or use them specifically to get around these controls, then they are pretty much too far down the stream to stop in the first place (The difference is that other people around them AKA: Real life, will notice it and take care of it). Get me? By keeping things behind the screen, the world can't assert its controls over people, this way; we can be assured that others will notice weird behaviour. (Not to mention it is much, much more restrictive!)

And if the current people here out of fear of losing that create social groups and stuff outside of the computer? Is that not good? Is that not a solid foundation for a proper community?

Everyone who would come after would not be "in the know", so it wouldn't matter, because over time all of the old people will eventually dissapear.

[Kaivan]

Kaivan don't confuse the message with what you want to see of it.

The things are listed, are possible; and yes: In the context of the game they are cheating, why? Because they were never put into the game in the first place.

To play a game by the rules is to properly follow its outlined design and intended rules at the time of play: This applies to monopoly, or backgammon or chess or pong or whatever.

You can never refute that, no matter how delusional you wish to be.

I never said that what you proposed wasn't possible to do. However, what you propose is absolutely ludicrous because you're suggesting a complete computer lockdown in order to enforce no communication outside of the game itself. To use your own analogy, that would be the same as preventing someone who is participating in a board game from getting up and going to the bathroom, or talking to anyone who wasn't part of the game at that point in time by force, because hey, they might get extra information that those other guys don't have. It would be crazy to even imagine that you have the right to do something like that in real life, and the same is true on a computer. You have no right to prevent anyone from running different programs simply because they might have some relation to the game.

And before we go back to the same argument of just having a user agree to the restrictions on their computer (effectively an EULA), look up the term "unconscionable eula" on Google. An EULA that suggests locking down your entire computer falls squarely into that category and is therefore invalid.

Well; then I am Light Shade....

I am simply representing a deep desire of Derrick's.

If he wishes to say otherwise, he can; but until then I will assume this course because I know it's whats best for the shard.

I can guarantee you that you're not representing a deep desire of Derrick's at all, and you can take my position on this to be just as official as Derrick's. This will never happen, and this is not even close to a good thing for the shard, or for anyone else. But, if you think that you'll get a different response from Derrick, feel free to ask him. It won't change a thing.

[Moppety]

I got an idea create ur own server restrict urself to these ideas, it will be just like if it was on uosa. As no one would play that rule set, using mobile devices isn't too far gone a good amount already do it for ease of use. Multi boxing computers has been a thing since uo started. The whole premis of taking away the social contacts whilst playing destroys the game.

The fact that the ruleset for this server is era accuracy. And in era we had irc, voice comm's, websites. Uo assist , uoam. Means that its wanted here as they where just a part of uo era as the game itself.

[Light Shade]

Search Function. Works wonders.

viewtopic.php?p=106238#p106238

[testuseraccount]

Yes, you do; it is only a game Kaivan; if they wish to converse with people who are important in their lives, they can just turn the game off.

Video games are not an inherent human right, and certainly UO is not either.

These things should not be so important or so twisted into people's lives that this kind of dis-illusioned reckoning should be heard anywhere.

Who cares what google says about this or that, or whatever articles or legal precedences you find, none of that matters; because UOSA is a free, charity run shard where you agree with what is given or you don't. So none of that applies to this situation, at all.

I am deeply bothered that you assume Derrick would think so, because I would rather think of him with his own voice and opinion other then just a part of an emotionally desperate enclave which only seeks its own interests.

Do you guys ever think of how much time, effort, work and money he has put into all of this? Have you ever thought of anyone but yourselves when you log in to play and enjoy the fruits of his labour?

If you did, you would not be paraphrasing his response for him.

If you did, you would be looking for ways to reduce the server load, reduce un-needed behaviour and encourage gameplay which doesn't keep taking, but gives.

If you did, you would consider something like this. <--- [Ignore this, I have been watching too many politicians on TV, LOL.]

Moppety, just because someone wants to cheat in a game, doesn't mean they should. It doesn't serve the spirit of it at all. And to quote many people here who have come before me on this matter: "era accuracy" does not extend to assist programs at the time, or mechanical limitations (like 56k modems) and laggy computers (Only server side).

[Derrick]

Interesting articles semi-related to this topic:
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2007/12/raph-koster-che/
http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/12/18/what-is-cheating/

No I don't think that a punk blocker program is a good idea. The motivated get around it, and the innocent are punished.

I do want to draw attention to the statement that "the spirits of games evolve" as an important point. Very few people play UO in the spirit of what the original game was intended to be. Other articles on Raph's site explain why different concepts like the world resource system just don't work. You can't dictate or predict how people play the game, or what it is to them. UO became much more and possiblly much less than what it was ever intended to be by the designers. The fact that players can shape the world in UO is great, but the extent to which they can actually express creativity was not initially imagined.

[testuseraccount]

Derrick; "cheating is, in the end, violating the spirit of the rules. But the spirits of games evolve."

That is assuming the game is evolving, as in the original designers, makers and producers are continually adding their spirit to it to adapt to the changing environment.

This is a T2A shard... (maybe this is enough to explain what I mean)

*not endorsed or supported by any of the characters of the original team...

[Light Shade]

I would support Razor being required, but your proposal would turn off a vast number of players with Privacy concerns...let alone those that simply like to multi-task.

As Derrick said, the innocent are punished.

[testuseraccount]

That is true Light shade, that is true.

But multi-tasking is the Devil

I don't wish to assume innocent, but its not assuming guilty either.

If you have control issues, that's understandable, but control issues are the problem here and people who think they can take what they want, however they want is part of discourse in the shard.

If socially oriented video games are to ever be any good, this is what must be done to secure it; to ensure that peace spreads, and not discontent.

[Derrick]

See my above PS, but I don't interpret the spirit of the game evolving as being something that a bunch of guys around a conference table engineer. Spirit cannot be dictated, it just happens.

[testuseraccount]

But how can the game evolve if it is inherently static in nature and can not change itself?

Thats like saying your shard can evolve itself, when in reality its only a bunch of variables and methods (and structs) which serve and do not have any function other then that.

What your talking about is more like bravado, no?

Nothing I am proposing has anything to do with how people play the game, they can play the game as they chose; but these things are not of the game and have nothing to do with playing. Only exploiting.

[Derrick]

How would you guys feel about a programme that acts as a sort of "loader" for UO, but not to allow changes to it, but to prevent changes to it?

Like the opposite of razor, instead of allowing systems to access it, it makes sure that no unauthorized programs can alter the game in any sort of way or perform any sort of actions over it.

It would have to, of course, be made as a requirement to connect to the shard, but could such a thing be accepted by the community as a whole?

This means:
- No more assist programs.
- No more tree hacking/altered game files.
- Completely level playing field.
- The beginnings of a stabilized economy.
- No more "accepted" cheating culture.
- Proper "hand" to "hand"/Mouse to Mouse combat (with more effort).
- Give proper meaning to achivements back (Like GM smith/etc).
- Assertion of proper light levels and atmosphere.

Thanks.

PS: I will make the programme only as long as one person desires it to exist.

I didn't really mean to skirt the original question, I only posted to share that article about cheating in general.

To address the original proposal: I don't belive this is possible, nor do I believe anyone would volunteer to play on Second Age given these requirements. A lot of effort could go into writing a program like this, but once public it'd take much less effort to write some alternative software to get around these requirements.

[testuseraccount]

I believe it is, and it is much easier,simpler and effective then you or Kaivan imagines, as long as the shard itself is taking part in such synchronizations/transactions. (Which is why the shard would need to be involved).

I mean, how do you work around a program that doesn't allow any other program to exist other then its own? (the moment you close it, it stops running and your connection to UOSA wont be valid anymore).

Sure you could try and feed it different info, but we can check for alterations and provide live lists of allowed exe's and hash's through remote means and verify them by sending them back to the origin for verification.

Its just that, since UOSA is just a free shard; it seems a bit much that someone would go all the way to overcome such a system, no?