Gold Duping

[FreakOnALeash]

I was killing innocent thief NPCs and after they steal my gold, there are 2 piles of gold on the corpse, both of the same amount. I know they don't carry that much gold to begin with...also, if I have bandaids on me, they steal those first but after I kill them, the bandaid stack is no where to be found.

[Telamon]

I was killing innocent thief NPCs and after they steal my gold, there are 2 piles of gold on the corpse, both of the same amount. I know they don't carry that much gold to begin with...also, if I have bandaids on me, they steal those first but after I kill them, the bandaid stack is no where to be found.

Apparently this is a bannable offense even though there is no official statement. So try out this bug, and you will face a ban.

[Derrick]

This has been fixed. Thanks for the report.

[Sir Trammelite]

Apparently this is a bannable offense even though there is no official statement. So try out this bug, and you will face a ban.

That's what happened? Such a shame really. I know I act like a really big jerk on this shard, but I sincerely hate to see the individuals that got banned go.

[Ragancy]

Apparently this is a bannable offense even though there is no official statement. So try out this bug, and you will face a ban.

That's what happened? Such a shame really. I know I act like a really big jerk on this shard, but I sincerely hate to see the individuals that got banned go.

I totally agree. While gold duping is obviously a no-no, IMO without an official statement on the matter, I think they should just be slapped with a serious fine (a couple mil, or whatever is commensurate with the amount that was duped) and be allowed to play knowing that if it happens again, they will be banned.

[Pirul]

I think people are not stupid (well, some evidently are). But if you know that you can "cheat" in a game, and not only that, but with a method that has been used since the beggining of online games (ie. duping), you cannot expect anything less to be the consequence.

Sad to see any player go, but there can be no other penalty for duping (although I think all their items should have been trash barreled to save server save time).

[Ragancy]

I think people are not stupid (well, some evidently are). But if you know that you can "cheat" in a game, and not only that, but with a method that has been used since the beggining of online games (ie. duping), you cannot expect anything less to be the consequence.

Sad to see any player go, but there can be no other penalty for duping (although I think all their items should have been trash barreled to save server save time).

I know it's a commonsense NO-NO thing to do, but the length of abuse of the exploit should be taken into account when considering the punishment.

It's not stated anywhere that doing something along the lines of gold duping will result in an immediate ban regardless of the severity of the duping. If there is verbiage on this, let me know where it is. I don't see it in the Rules of the shard page.

If i test the bug out a few times, should I be banned? What's the minimum amount of time testing the bug to where it reaches a point of abuse and bannable? There's some grey area here.

[HardCore]

[Pirul]

I know it's a commonsense NO-NO thing to do, but the length of abuse of the exploit should be taken into account when considering the punishment.

It's not stated anywhere that doing something along the lines of gold duping will result in an immediate ban regardless of the severity of the duping. If there is verbiage on this, let me know where it is. I don't see it in the Rules of the shard page.

If i test the bug out a few times, should I be banned? What's the minimum amount of time testing the bug to where it reaches a point of abuse and bannable? There's some grey area here.

Although there is no rule stating this verbatim (that I know of), the thing with fines is it's subjective, and when you go subjective, you open a window for appeals. Do it commesurate to the amount duped? I don't think admin can determine the precise amount duped. Hell, I'm not sure the infractors know exactly how much they duped even.

Which brings us to: what would be a fair punishment? A 2mill fine? A 4 mill fine? Why 2 and not 4? Why 4 and not 8? What if they can't afford the fine because they bought a ton of +25 vanq hallies and nightmares, and were Pked with archer-bots and lost them all? This is why I think the decission to perma-ban him/them was the correct decission. It eliminates the grey area that you talk about in your post and makes it pretty black and white.

Let's not forget we're playing in Derrick's backyard, and this is his ball. He has all the right in the world to say who can play and who can't without need to explain himself.

[LudKrud]

Personally I think how the gold was duped needs to be taken into account.Did he black hole or some other exploit to do it?

Apparently to me anyways all he did was let an npc steal from him then kill it and loot it.....while he maybe should have reported it he was not doing anything to make the game do something it wasnt supposed to do.There are people abusing game mechanics a lot worse than this,I mean how much gold is an npc thief going to steal?
Does it end up with as much as a balron?
If everyone on this shard that found some glitch and took advantage of it until the general public found out got banned there would be a lot of vets gone.....

IJS......

[Pirul]

Thing is, that is also subjective. How much gold is a little and how much is a lot? What should be the cutoff for gold "allowed" to be duped? Who gets to determine such cutoff? Derrick? He did, and I assume he set it at 1gp.

If he/they knew of the exploit, and not only did they not report it, but they exploited it for an undetermined amount of time, and an undetermined amount of gold, what could be the penalty? Who gets to determine the penalty? Derrick? He did, and set it as a ban.

Also,

There are people abusing game mechanics a lot worse than this

If everyone on this shard that found some glitch and took advantage of it until the general public found out got banned there would be a lot of vets gone.....

I suggest and plea that you report the mechanic being abused so admin can fix it and improve the shard as a whole. It has been known that some players have gotten some nice "loot" when they report game breaking bugs.

[Ragancy]

Thing is, that is also subjective. How much gold is a little and how much is a lot? What should be the cutoff for gold "allowed" to be duped? Who gets to determine such cutoff? Derrick? He did, and I assume he set it at 1gp.

If he/they knew of the exploit, and not only did they not report it, but they exploited it for an undetermined amount of time, and an undetermined amount of gold, what could be the penalty? Who gets to determine the penalty? Derrick? He did, and set it as a ban.

I don't think anyone should be banned when there's no statement made about it. Just fine them (yes, that can be subjective and up to Derrick), or temporarily ban them and give them a warning about doing it. A permanent ban is too harsh when nothing's been said about it, and that's the point I'm trying to make. Derrick makes the rules and it's his call, but IMO the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

We have the best staff of any shard, and that's why I urge them to consider making an announcement regarding any bannable bug that comes to be known.

Being one of the most severe bugs to hit UOSA, it sat for 3 weeks without being addressed nor any mention of the implications of using it. Seems like there should have been an immediate statement regarding its abuse.

[Pirul]

A permanent ban is too harsh when nothing's been said about it, and that's the point I'm trying to make.

I wish it had been a perma-ban, but that's just because I'm a hard-ass. Eventhough it might have been advertised as a perma-ban (which I do not know, and everything I'm saying is an assumption), I know people who have been banned and allowed back creating new accounts, basically forfeiting everything they had.

[iamreallysquall]

A permanent ban is too harsh when nothing's been said about it, and that's the point I'm trying to make.

I wish it had been a perma-ban, but that's just because I'm a hard-ass. Eventhough it might have been advertised as a perma-ban (which I do not know, and everything I'm saying is an assumption), I know people who have been banned and allowed back creating new accounts, basically forfeiting everything they had.

^ and also if the people we making assumptions about are hte people i think they are they have been abusing other bugs as well in the past instead of reporting them they shared them with friends and then those friends tell more friends and well then staff finds out instead of doing you know the right thing about it . If i fond a way to dupe gold or any serious exploit thats game breaking i would not even post in this forum i would bring it to derrick directly . Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:52 am post is made about the bug

This has been fixed. Thanks for the report.

Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:03 am
and its common sense that anything like gold duping etc is a banable offense

[Roser]

Duping gold is probably the most game breaking thing that can possibly occur in a game like this. For one, it devalues the economy so greatly that entry level players can never gain a foothold unless they learn to dupe themselves. Secondly it creates a class of player that can obtain anything they want essentially for free, good luck trying to bid with these people at an auction.

I don't know if you guys remember this, but duping nearly killed OSI before it even got off the ground. Thankfully at the time OSI UO was the most amazing game ever, and it did not phase players that much. A barter system grew out of the chaos during that time because no one would accept gold as payment anymore. Today, on UOSA, if the gold duping ever got out of hand, it would most likely spell the end of UOSA as we know it.

Who wants to spend time farming for gold if there are a class of gold duping players around? It is utterly pointless.

So, the only way I would have not banned someone for this, would have been if they did it once, realized what was going on, then reported it honestly. The fact that the players involved did not do that, and continued to exploit this bug is obvious grounds for the ole ban hammer.

One final thought - I understand that some of the player's involved in this were already immensely rich, how bloody foolish do you have to be? Idiots! Apparently no one ever told you that it's a bad idea to sh!t where you eat. Enjoy your ban, it is well deserved.

I always love to see a hypocrite get whats coming to him.