UO Second Age

Perhaps you guys can clear up this for me which I've never seem to understand. Why grief without gain? I can understand PKing - it's fun pvp, usually get a weapon and regs out of the deal. I can understand revenge griefing.. self explanatory.

What I don't seem to understand is going out of your way to kill housed mounts or house sheep farms. You're waiting 15 minutes and a bunch of regs to accomplish your goal.. when it'll take the one you grief all of five minutes and two gates to get it all back. There are other examples but these are all I can think about atm.

Not trying to trash talk - used to bother me way back in the day - but on this shard I honestly don't care. I simply never understood the underline psychology of doing it - what exactly do you get out of this deal?

this is usually done by butthurt people who suck at PVP and are mad they can't kill anyone on the field. it's like an inferiority complex.

"If I can't have it, neither can you."

I think that sums up the attitude of a lot of people here regarding items and such, and I believe the same sort of mentality works for griefing etc. too. If a griefer is too lazy or not interested enough to do something himself, he's going to spoil it from everyone else he encounters.

Sometimes, like you mentioned, people are going to excessive measures to achieve a very simple result, usually one that doesn't even ruin your day. However, they probably think they have ruined your day and get some satisfaction out of that, while the reality is something else entirely.

Where the above mentioned attitude gets it spark from is unclear to me - maybe people still have all their OSI traumas in mind when they play here - if something happened on OSI, it must happen here too. But hey, that's era accuracy for you.

Well whoever did this to you is probably laughing right now because you made a thread about it. So I guess I wouldn't say there is no gain in it. That is the nature of UO, sometimes people do stuff like this because they simply can. And if someone rages about it for example makes a thread about it or rages about it in IRC, then it makes it all the more worth while to them.

Instead, learn from your mistakes so it doesn't happen again. And just ignore them and move on.

Terrowin wrote:Well whoever did this to you is probably laughing right now because you made a thread about it. So I guess I wouldn't say there is no gain in it. That is the nature of UO, sometimes people do stuff like this because they simply can. And if someone rages about it for example makes a thread about it or rages about it in IRC, then it makes it all the more worth while to them.

Instead, learn from your mistakes so it doesn't happen again. And just ignore them and move on.

^ lol also as far as sheep goes it takes you alot longer to tame 100 sheep then a few eq scrolls doesn't take 15mins to kill sheep lol

Terrowin - sort of missing the point. Last time this happened to me on this shard was a month ago - I shrugged it off and moved on. This isn't a rage post - nor am I in IRC complaining. This isn't a vent.

Could very well be the 'nature of UO' - happened to me enough times back in the day. I'm simply trying to understand why it's worth the trouble to do it as I see a lot of it around here.

You leave your house unlocked good chance I'm going to rob what ever I can. If I have reason I'll pk someone - or hell maybe I just don't have any murder counts at the moment and I feel the urge. I simply never quite grasped the idea of waisting my time with nothing to show for it.

Think Jekkis is probably correct though.

Lordlp it's a sandbox mmo, there doesn't have to be a reason or a point for anyone to do anything. They do it because it is fun to them so there is gain in that. For some people it is fun to go gather and tame sheep in their house to afk resource collect wool. And for other people it is fun to simply kill said sheep with a few EQs.

lordlp wrote:Perhaps you guys can clear up this for me which I've never seem to understand. Why grief without gain? I can understand PKing - it's fun pvp, usually get a weapon and regs out of the deal. I can understand revenge griefing.. self explanatory.

What I don't seem to understand is going out of your way to kill housed mounts or house sheep farms. You're waiting 15 minutes and a bunch of regs to accomplish your goal.. when it'll take the one you grief all of five minutes and two gates to get it all back. There are other examples but these are all I can think about atm.

Not trying to trash talk - used to bother me way back in the day - but on this shard I honestly don't care. I simply never understood the underline psychology of doing it - what exactly do you get out of this deal?

The definition of griefing is to annoy someone in one way or another for your own satisfaction. Material ingame gain has nothing to do with it.

Matty wrote:this is usually done by butthurt people who suck at PVP and are mad they can't kill anyone on the field. it's like an inferiority complex.

This.

P.S, do you have a permit for that sheepfarm of yours, OP?

I'll be honest, I go around as Bill Murray and kill sheep farms just to be a dickhead.

Why should I condone and allow illegal resource gathering? It must be stopped. Bandages are just everywhere and soon they will replace gold as currency and replace the bricks in our houses.

Also it only takes 3-4 EQs to kill your sheep lordlp. And since I totally have like 99.5 magery and 94 meditation, it only takes 8 minutes MAX.

Back in the day I had my account banned one time, I let my son (maybe 12 at the time) play while I ran to the store, he was Griefing and cussing the whole time. (not like that at all in real life, even now years later) when I talked to him about it, he at that age had not grasped that there were people behind the toons. he was just "running wild" with no real thought for others. He grew up, maybe others haven't.

Griefing was one of the best aspects of Ultima Online. I like watching mounts die, fully loaded corpses decay, and kegs/chests behind tables/walls exploding when touched by EVs. I find it hilarious and very sexy tbh.

Koden wrote:Back in the day I had my account banned one time, I let my son (maybe 12 at the time) play while I ran to the store, he was Griefing and cussing the whole time. (not like that at all in real life, even now years later) when I talked to him about it, he at that age had not grasped that there were people behind the toons. he was just "running wild" with no real thought for others. He grew up, maybe others haven't.

I started playing when I was 12 and began griefing soon after (it was the "cool" thing to do, after all... at least among those I hung out with). I "grew out" of it, and quit UO around 2002. Until recently, whenever I reflected back on my UO experience, I always couldn't see myself being a griefer again... but the moment I found this shard and started playing again, I invited my Bro's to join me in figuring out how to most effectively town kill peeps who aren't even afk.

Why grief again, when I thought I'd "grown out of it"? Hard to say, exactly, but I think that being a griefer is the most "interesting" playstyle in UO. Of course, I can't stand hard-core (lame) griefing people, who kill and dry loot and talk all sorts of smack and especially cuss and make explicit racial/sexual remarks and crap like that... I think that crosses into the realm of just being an idiot (although everybody has a different idea of where that line is). I don't grief all the time, of course... but it's hard to turn down opportunities when they present themselves (and probably only a fraction of my victims would consider themselves as being "griefed" by me).

In any case, good reasons to grief (even without "profit") are:

• You get to be creative in finding ways to "get" somebody. This adds a lot of variety and spice to the game. For example, it takes a lot of coordination to kill somebody in town while they are not afk AND then to loot their body even though it is blue... So, actually doing it (1) gives you a feeling of accomplishment and (2) gives you the feeling of superiority for outsmarting someone in the game--and although some may argue that this is an evil feeling, it's really not different from the feeling you get when you are "winning" in any other games or sports, it's just that the person you are "competing" with is often unwittingly involved... which, although some argue this makes it wrong, in my opinion actually makes it more interesting/memorable for both parties (usually more "fun" for the griefer more than the receiver of grief, of course...).
• It's educational to others... nothing will make you an expert in the game faster than the school of hard knocks. e.g. don't macro on the top of a tower b/c you'll get EV'ed to death (Flea & Co.*cough*). I've been griefed many times, but I see what they did and they will almost certainly not get me again in the same way. Being griefed also gives you insight into the mechanics of the game, which broadens your horizons (whether a griefer or not).
• The reactions you get are varied and often interesting... furthermore, playing along with those reactions in different ways can often yield comical outcomes (perhaps at the expense of another player, yes--but usually only if they are taking the game too seriously)... but, again, it makes for an interesting experience, without which, UO would be boring).

A griefer can be a fun playstyle that adds a lot to a game that, without risk, is booooring. Protecting yourself from griefers (and not taking unimportant things too seriously) is also important and something that you should learn (it's a real life skill, you know... and hey, you can practice it in UO without any real consequences!)

the bazookas wrote: Of course, I can't stand hard-core (lame) griefing people, who kill and dry loot and talk all sorts of smack and especially cuss and make explicit racial/sexual remarks and crap like that... I think that crosses into the realm of just being an idiot (although everybody has a different idea of where that line is). I don't grief all the time, of course... but it's hard to turn down opportunities when they present themselves (and probably only a fraction of my victims would consider themselves as being "griefed" by me).

Most of what I think of as Griefing fall into what you call "hard-core". I'm not above a misdeed or two, I had someone running in and one hitting lich I was killing so they could grab the gold, I chated away with him as he took gold from 3 more. Then I cornered him killed him and looted him dry. I then went at him again later that day (just cuz). I see that as gameplay not Greifing.

The reactions you get are varied and often interesting... furthermore, playing along with those reactions in different ways can often yield comical outcomes (perhaps at the expense of another player, yes--but usually only if they are taking the game too seriously)... but, again, it makes for an interesting experience, without which, UO would be boring).

This pretty much sums up why I often participate in what would be described as "no profit griefing"