Restricting Ridable Llamas and Ostards to T2A.

[Kaivan]

I was browsing through the Stables thread in the General Discussion forum, and ran across a post where someone mentioned that some of their ostards had dissapeared from the stables. This got me thinking about ostards and ridable llamas in the mainlands of UO. Upon further investigation, I found that ostards and llamas were indeed allowed into the mainlands here on UOSA. This was not the case during T2A. The functionality that allowed players to use ostards and ridable llamas in the main lands of UO was not added until late 2000. Here is the patch note that covers the addition of the functionality for using ostards and llamas in the main lands:

Changes to T2A/ Britannia transportation Dec 4 2000 4:57PM CST
The current travel restrictions that exist between T2A (Second Age lands) and Britannia (Old Lands) will be lifted in the following manner:

• Players will be able to recall and gate between the Lost Lands (T2A) and Britannia.
• Passageways and connection points between the Lost Lands and Britannia will be open to tamed creature travel.
• Players will be able to use stablemasters in both areas with T2A or Britannian creatures. Players will be able to remove Lost Lands creatures from the stables while being within the Britannian lands, and vice versa.
• Players will be able to ride a mounted ostard or rideable llama across Lost Land/Britannian access points.
• Allow for rideable llamas to be mounted in the Old Lands (Britannia).

Patch note link: http://update.uo.com/design_279.html

Also, for anyone who recalls the various signs in the many areas between T2A and the main lands, they all mentioned something akin to "No pets allowed". This was intended to explain that you could not bring ostards and ridable llamas into the main lands, and after the functionaly to bring them in was implimented, they became artifacts of the old system.

[Ronk]

On that note, it should also be mentioned that

1. There were bugs which allowed ostards and llamas in the mainland. To people without the T2A client they just saw an invisible horse, more or less.

2. The reason for this is because, initially, people without T2A couldn't see T2A content so they had to separate it.

[Faust]

I have many screenshots with the signs and their wording for use here when we create them. If I remember correctly there is at least 4-5 that I have of them at different locations.

[Silverfoot]

It wasn't a bug, you were able to bring them right through. As soon as t2a opened up people were bringing mounts through. I remember specifically if you were using the older client, it looked as if people riding ostards or llamas were on an invisible mount floating around. Something is misleading about those patch notes.

[Mens Rea]

I am pretty sure this is correct.

There were bugs to bring them through, but there always used to be deserted mounts at the T2A gates. I'm pretty sure they weren't allowed in the old lands either...

[Purge]

Moonglow t2a spot you couldn't bring them through but you could through the passageways iirc

[platy]

As far as I can remember there WAS a way to get the mounts into mainland or Brittania, however the moonglow recdu/recsu spot was NOT the way.. I can't remember what it said when you tried but I definately remember you not being able to cross between worlds thru moonglow (practically the only portal I used since my guilds HQ's were just outside guards at glow)
There was a way AFAIK because my Guildmaster had a tamer and rode the llamas quite often

[Ronk]

Which means for era accuracy, I think its best to leave things along in this case. If you want era accuracy and remove mounts, we could have that done...but we'd also have to go era accuracy and add in the bugs which allow mounts.

Not to mention the entire purpose of 'baning them' was based on the fact that, at the time, they didn't want to force everyone to download T2A artwork.

[platy]

I see what your saying Ronk, But let me just point out that the GM of my guild in Catskills was eventually BANNED from OSI (could've been EA at this point) for using exploits.. I think she got caught using the faction hued spellbook bug within a week of the release of Factions: which lead to the end of my time in UO..
Just shedding some light on the play style of the character whom I KNOW had ridable llamas in Brittania during t2a.. She was, in fact, a "cheater".. I personally remember NOT being able to get them thru but I didn't know the "bug" which she used to get them across..

[Silverfoot]

I think it is wrong to call it a "bug". I think it was more along the lines of what was said above, you couldn't bring mounts through the Moonglow entry point, but you could through the Delucia passage and maybe some other areas. When the lost lands first opened, I remember everyone was bringing ridable llamas and ostards through. It definitely was not some obscure bug.

[Ronk]

I think it is wrong to call it a "bug". I think it was more along the lines of what was said above, you couldn't bring mounts through the Moonglow entry point, but you could through the Delucia passage and maybe some other areas. When the lost lands first opened, I remember everyone was bringing ridable llamas and ostards through. It definitely was not some obscure bug.

You are correct.

From a software standpoint the reason to try and limit it was so that they didn't have to force people to download a big art patch. Back then, cable modems and high speed were not prevaliant so having people download chunks of art on 56k would have sucked. In addition, they wanted people to buy T2A for its content, not have others bring the content to them.

However, I do say its a bug because I highly doubt they intended on banning mounts from traveling most ways but allowed them via some. I would say its more likely they missed a big gaping hole and that allowed people to bring the content back. This, in turn, caused problems because suddenly you have invisible pets/tames that non-T2A people can't see.

Btw, are you sure it was a board that let you get the pets through? I never did the bug but I always assumed it was green acres. There are areas in green acres where you could run from 'main world' to 't2a'

[son]

Not only should this stay as is but also the llama mount spawn should be upped.

[Faust]

It really shouldn't matter why it should stay based on "what if's" or personal opinions. What matters is the accuracy aspect of the feature. When it is implemented the same standards that applied back then for getting the mounts out of t2a will apply. There is no reason it should not be since it is in fact accurate in my opinion.

[son]

It is in fact era accurate that llama/ostard exploit existed during t2a era. Thus llamas/ostards in t2a should be allowed in old lands without question. Everyone has the new client now, so this will not cause ghost rider problem.

Furthermore the rideable llama spawn is much slower now (in UOSA) than what it was in OSI time.

[Kaivan]

Well, it's definitely true that there were ways to get ostards and llamas into the old lands, but from my recollection, GMs would delete them on site. I personally never rode an ostard or llama before obtaining my ethereal Llama during UOR, I always rode horses. So I personally didn't know any of the exploits for bringing animals into the old lands.

Overall, if we can determine which bugs were used to bring them into the old lands, we could add in the functionality for those bugs to work, and also restrict bringing in mounts through any conventional means. Otherwise we can put the idea on the back burner until we find a reliable way to implement it.