Beatingu account bans

[Proto]

This was posted in the Trash Talk forum, but i felt this might be more approprate in the second age discussion forum. Beatingu is a dear rl friend i have known for 10 years. If i am banned for making this post, i hope it does not fall on deaf ears before it happens. I know sometimes when you speak up or out, in a situation where you really have no power or control, you can be swiftly dealt with, removed, your identity vanish. My hope is instead that my words will incite nothing much then a discussion, as many things are disucssed on this forum i am bring to the table facts and referencing those facts with links to posts made here. I digress....


When reading the post made by our Game Father Derrick in regards to the selling of in game wares for rl cash.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5204

Even our revered uo father admits he poorly worded his post.

Ashikata wrote:
"Every time I read this thread title, I think Derrick is breaking his own rules"
Derrick wrote:
"That's funny; you're right. I could have phrased that a lot better."

Unfortunately for Beatingu, when he poorly worded his post, his 1.5 years of dedication on the shard was removed swiftly, with his own testimony and forum pms not to be taken into account. Yet this post, which is locked, and should be taken at its word, verbatim was never corrected so as to be not misinterpreted.

How as a friend am i not to feel this ban to be unjust? Lets look at the facts.

1-Beatingu had no means of selling his wares via the forum as he had been permanently banned from trading by Nevermore. Hence the need to make a post in the trash talk forum, not selling anything, but asking for offers. (As trash talk is not a place to conduct business, and with his previous ban of trade forum it would be a very bad idea to conduct trade business via the very forum he was told he could no longer do so) Hence basically attempting to 'avoid a ban' for attempting to use the trash talk forum to trade goods.

2- Just what was listed in this proof of selling in game items for rl cash? The heading was 'taking offers,' listed inside was a rough outline of everything owned or created by Beatingu. Silver, gold, housing, characters, items. All of which are legal to trade on uosa, none of which were asking any rl compensation. The argument was proposed "why would he list gold and silver?" The simple answer would be why not? Either you get an offer from someone to purchase all the remaining silver you own for 12k and you sell it, or someone offers to sell you 700 silver at 9k per, either would be a good deal and listing both shows he was capable of either trade. "Why would he list his e-mail though, that’s very suspect and sketchy." If Beatingu were to not list an alternative place to receive offers, where would he? See point 1 as to why it would have been a really bad idea to conduct a trade forum in the trash talking forum after being permanently banned from doing trade on the forums. Many people do not know you can just click under the players name to get their e-mail address, so listing it seemed like a logical idea. "Why e-mail though? People could send you forum pms and inquire about your goods." Very valid point, and many did. Derrick has access to all of Beatingu's forum pms and if he wanted could post the business i was conducting via them. Many deals were in the works trading items for gold, etc.

3) "Did people e-mail you offers to buy items for rl cash?" Yes, and that was one really strong point Derrick made when we talked on irc after the ban. He asked me, did your post have the effect of having people e-mail you asking what cash value you wanted for your accounts or items? I had roughly 10 e-mails from people to this effect. Of the 10, all 10 were phony Hotmail accounts, mostly with goofy names, or pretending to be players who are uosa vets. Not being a complete idiot, i checked on the validity of each email account i got a message from. All 10 of them came back bogus, no ties to uosa accounts, all just created by players who have it out for me. So to answer that question, yes, i got many inquiries from uosa enemies trying to entrap me for whatever reason. I made Derrick aware of this as well. I did not ask him directly if he had made a fake account himself and e-mailed me, but i did send him a few of those interactions via e-mail. I offered to send all 10, he declined. The only person i got a real e-mail from was Arsen, his e-mail was linked to his account here on uosa. For all the fake e-mail accounts i gave random (i thought cleaver responses)

4- What should be revisited when constituting a permanent ban on someone’s account? If you’re going to ban players for selling wares for rl cash, there should be at least the following criteria met. A) A legitement uosa account holder has verified proof that said rule breaker is actually breaking these rules. I.E An e-mail addressing these concerns from a legitament e-mail account of the uosa player in question to a legitament e-mail account of the person investigating. The reason behind this being how could you possibly take a player seriously on an offer if they have a fake or made up account with no connection to the uosa community. It makes as much sense as banning someone for something they said in a private irc chat window.
B) Clarification as what "soliciting" actually is, what constitutes it, how it applies to the game world should be clear in the forum post made by our gm. When even a year ago after it was written, in the same forum post he admits it was poorly written and hard to understand, you would think in a years’ time it would have been updated to make it more clear. Especially given the dire implications of breaking that poorly written rule. the, evidence be given to said player via e-mail at the very least, so said player knows why he was banned, and not just that due to the way he plays the game (which in many posts made by even our gm are what make the game great I.E the variety of play involved in this game) See: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8714

D) To also take into consideration the spent by said player on the shard, weight the evidence (hard evidence) forum posts, pms, irc logs, e-mail's from and to real uosa legitament e-mail accounts, not just players pretending for shits and giggles.

We all know that Derrick is more than likely the fairest, most trusted gm of any player run shard out there. But given the dire nature of the situation, i felt it prudent to post this. I hope to hear some feed back,

Regards,

Xproto

[Loathed]

as I don't know all the details and such on this, the one thing that points out to me that it would be for rl $$ rather than ingame currency is just because of the mentioning of how much gold was in the bank. If one person is selling his accounts for ingame currency be it, gold/silver etc.. why would they sell the gold/silver on the account? that's the only thing (again i have no info on anything else other than the post) that makes it appear to be for $$ in rl.

There is one good thing in this though. He was leaving anyhow so it's not like much was lost in the aspect of his stuff on the server. I mean he was gonna sell it (be it for in or out of game $$) If he is allowed to come back or whatever i'd be more than happy to help him get started again. I welcome anyone to uosa- High population is always best. Ok let me change that a lil' bit. I welcome any non-hacking/bug abusing/etc.. back to the server. Rules get broken at times and things happen according, usually. Is he perma banned from the server by ip and such? hell i dunno i thought selling ur stuff for rl cash meant accounts being sold banned. And i don't see why he wouldn't be allowed back on, especially after time passed to let all parties cool off.
I was once banned from the server, long ago. I was raging hard (back when all kill worked for every pet) one day. And at the moment a gm, Mahees (or something along those lines), showed up. I talked to him like he was shit and i was banned. After much time passed. Contacting parties involved and expressing my apologies etc.. I was allowed to return. I'd only imagine the same treatment would be allowed. I don't see an exploit or hack being used. But hey- this is just my 2 cents and I hope we can continue to talk smack to me during the game.

[iamreallysquall]

he is allowed to make new accounts he wants his 'stuff' back' that he tried to sell for 'rl cash'

[BenBrawl]

the biggest thing i think is he was tryin to sell gold for gold? dont try and play it off like he (you) were trying to sell ingame...

BTW its so hard reading your posts with you saying I and beatingu. which is it? Are you the one that got beatingu banned or did he himself?

[lettuce]

ha

[Proto]

Read my post, all is explained.

[Proto]

Oh an yes, he was ip banned from the shard.

[Mikel123]

For clarity, the proto account was being hijacked by beatingu as per an ip check on the post above.

Trying to be fair and thorough in this affair has consumed a lot of my time today, and has been met only by deception and libel.

This is a free shard, and we have very few rules, but the rules we do have will be strictly enforced.

Seriously, stop wasting people's time.

[SJane3384]

Seriously, stop wasting people's time.

QFT

[Vilenarios]

I heard from a good source that accounts will be unbanned if you make 5 threads, each one longer than the last, whining about being banned.

[Downs]

You were quitting anyways, why do u care?

It is suspicious to say your selling gold. What are you gonna buy gold with in game?

We all look forward to your next 4 threads that will get you nowhere. Thx bye

[Braden]

As is typical with these types of posts the person or "friend" of the person in trouble is only giving a small fragment of the story. The evidence was overwhelming. BeatingU is welcome to e-mail Derrick. He knows the address. The forums is not the place to discuss this.