Non-Macro Tournament?

[Ronk]

Back on Greatlakes, long ago, I never used any macros save some very basic in game client macros (open backpack, etc). I certainly never used any of the 'illegal' third party apps.

Now adays, most everyone uses macros to drink potions, use bandages, cast spells, equip items...and as thus UO is no longer a twitch game. It allows fat/slow (sorry, I mean big boned) people to compete just the same (much like handicap ramps).

What I would like to do, at some point, is host a non-macro tournament. Only certain key macros would be allowed. I am curious, short of using the honor system which would never work, can anyone think of any ways to enforce the no-macro rule?

My initial thought is some sort of desktop recording app that also records key presses and mouse clicks (minus the log on part, of course).

I also wonder if anyone would be interested in this sort of tournament or if everyone will just whine that its too difficult and go back to wanting to be spoon fed.

[Jayrich]

yes pls download my program it will just record all of your key strokes

lol did you think before you typed this you want people to line up and get keylogged for your special tournament

[Ronk]

yes pls download my program it will just record all of your key strokes

lol did you think before you typed this you want people to line up and get keylogged for your special tournament

I think one of us failed at reading comprehension. I don't discount it could be me but I never said I wrote (or have) a program to log key strokes, this thread is a hypothetical 'how to solve it' discussion and it contains no links to downloads or any mention of actually having a tournament scheduled.

So did I think? Yes, but apparently I mistakenly thought that people could read between the lines.

[Heckler]

like the 3th or 4th day when i first set foot into sosaria i started using UoAssist... and like 1 year after i first used it i bought it since the guy that made cracked dlls stopped doing so :/

i think this could be interesting such a tournament but it will clearly not be possible due to the lack of ways to prohibit and enforce that prohibition.

all i wanted to say is when uo first was launched shortly after that uoassist was introduced. there was like nearly no time when this tool has not existed.

[Ender]

Doesn't seem like he's saying that the programs never existed, just that some folks didn't rely on them as much or at all back in the day. I think this is a great idea but unfortunately I doubt any of these folks would give up their crutch, even for a day, to play some good ol' fashioned UO. And even if the event was arranged, there's not a doubt in my mind that some fucktard would come and cheat just to piss folks off.

Cheers to your idea though.

[nightshark]

I'd be down

[Ronk]

Exactly Ender. I dunno, maybe all those years on Great Lakes I was playing against 'cheaters' (i.e. the illegal tools) but I always double clicked bandages, potions, targeted by clicking, etc. Once I remember this guy accused me of hacking because I healed my friend through his IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII spam....yes, in those days people would spam IIIIIIIIIIII to try and block you from clicking someone. You could still click between the letters or lines but it was more difficult.

But I am still trying to think up a good way to enforce it. Im not sure recording the desktop would be enough since a person could still potentially hide the fact that they are running razor macros or using some other third party program.

Logging keys/mouse would work but that would obviously freak a lot of people out due to forementioned reasons. It would be an added step but it would be easy enough to release source code to a logger program to prove that user/passes aren't being logged. Then people coudl compile it themselves or verify hashes to ensure the program is what it says.

The honor system 'could' work, but without a way to verify, people would throw around accusations regardless.

[Chaos]

Not sure ... but honestly I think it is doable to show on myuosa if somone was loged in via razor .. I not SURE or even sure how much work it will take .. but I'm pretty sure there are ways to tell if some logged in via razor and thus could be displayed on myuosa .. if there is support and talk of this .. might be a good idea for player events in my mind .. if you don't want this change you can just make char priv. and not do such things ..

[BlackFoot]

id play if you coudl figeur it out
also need to knwo exactly which macros we were allowed to make through the client

[Kelektra]

back in the day = you didnt use macro, other person didnt use macros

today = you use macro, other person uses macros

Its the same playing field therefor your skill levels are still the same so you should still be able to beat them.

[Ronk]

back in the day = you didnt use macro, other person didnt use macros

today = you use macro, other person uses macros

Its the same playing field therefor your skill levels are still the same so you should still be able to beat them.

So you are in then? Good. Because if its the same playing field in a non-macro tournament, you'll have no problem fitting right in and rocking it.


After more thinking, recording a persons desktop is all that should be needed. Logging keys or mouse clicks wouldn't be needed as long as the recording physically shows the mouse moving (I think). For example, if yo uwere to hit a button to chug a potion then the recording would clearly show you chugging a potion without moving your mouse over to click it. Does anyone see any flaws with this or can anyone think of ways to abuse it?

The 'perfect' setup would be a system where me or other judges could watch competing players in real time. So no need to 'review' videos to prevent cheating. Presumably the video feeds could be public for anyone to view but I imagine some people wouldn't necessarily want everyone seeing thier setup, backpack organization, etc.

[Drunk Monk]

Count me in, if I can make it

[Huzke]

UOAssist and Razor weren't made to give anyone an unfair advantage, they were made because some actions in UO are tedious and un-fun for the majority of players. Even with Razor UO's interface is clunky compared to other games, but the rest of what makes UO special makes it worth playing.

I doubt a lot of people would want to revert to an even clunkier way of playing just to be in a tournament and even less would be willing to download some program to record their desktop as well.

Just because people want to actually play a game they enjoy with a slightly improved means of interfacing does not mean they're fat, slow, or big boned. It just means they don't like playing with a terrible interface any more.

But I certainly wish you luck with your tournament and I hope it goes well for you.

[Vilenarios]

Not sure if I follow..

You want to remove razor macros, but replace them what recorded key strokes? Whats the difference if I hit a razor key versus a "double click potion stack" key?

[Ronk]

Not sure if I follow..

You want to remove razor macros, but replace them what recorded key strokes? Whats the difference if I hit a razor key versus a "double click potion stack" key?

Razor macro lets you "Hit K to drink a greater heal potion"
Razor would also let you cast a spell and click "last target"
Razor would let you equip a weapon and unequp a weapon with a key press.

The original T2A UO client did not.

These are just a few examples.