UO Second Age

stat loss is a F*cking pain in the ass!!! i died a couple times and went from GM skills that took me FOREVER to get to, and went to 95... this if f*cking retarded take out statloss or make it a hell of alot less... i now have to go marco AGAIN... and get my skills to 100.. GRRRRR

dont die.

and dont double post.

I remember stat loss being a lot more critical and punishing than it is right now. I know you did not need 200 kills to get 20%, that's a fact.

leaf nut wrote:stat loss is a F*cking pain in the ass!!! i died a couple times and went from GM skills that took me FOREVER to get to, and went to 95... this if f*cking retarded take out statloss or make it a hell of alot less... i now have to go marco AGAIN... and get my skills to 100.. GRRRRR

Obvious Answer....

Don't murder people......if you murder people there are consequences...deal.

Mirage wrote:I remember stat loss being a lot more critical and punishing than it is right now. I know you did not need 200 kills to get 20%, that's a fact.

Yes, I think this needs to be looked at again. It was certainly not .1 per kill. I think if you were stat loss you were going to incur the 20% whether at 6 short kills or 600.

There seems to be some confusion on the scale here. Loss is 1% - 20% maxing at 100 kills, not 200

when you died as a red stat loss used to be horendous, 95 is not bad, and quit complaining if you're just going to "macro" it off... not like you're putting much effort. You don't have to be a red pk you know! Or dont be so careless and either fight people you can't kill, or put yourslef in situations you can't escape. =/ theres a few reds on this shard who do a good job with this.

I remember stat loss being more severe than it is now. To have to reach 100 kills short term is a feat in itself. Wonder how accurate the current system really is.

Derrick wrote:There seems to be some confusion on the scale here. Loss is 1% - 20% maxing at 100 kills, not 200

Even still, that's a ridiculous amount of kills to have before getting 20% stat loss. I never remember having to get 100 kills to get 20% statloss. I mean people are dieing with 20 kills probably getting what, 4-5% statloss? Ressing their characters with penalties and macroing it up in one night, literally. There needs to be more risk involved if you're going to pk. The pking is going to get out of hand, and that is why a lot of other free shards have failed before. There is no risk to being a pker and going into stat loss.

Flash Hardstar wrote:when you died as a red stat loss used to be horendous, 95 is not bad, and quit complaining if you're just going to "macro" it off... not like you're putting much effort. You don't have to be a red pk you know! Or dont be so careless and either fight people you can't kill, or put yourslef in situations you can't escape. =/ theres a few reds on this shard who do a good job with this.

Who's complaining? I'm a pker and I'm looking for stricter consequences when reds die in stat loss. I personally remember it as a flat percentage regardless of wether your were at 100 kills or 10.

Mirage wrote:

Flash Hardstar wrote:when you died as a red stat loss used to be horendous, 95 is not bad, and quit complaining if you're just going to "macro" it off... not like you're putting much effort. You don't have to be a red pk you know! Or dont be so careless and either fight people you can't kill, or put yourslef in situations you can't escape. =/ theres a few reds on this shard who do a good job with this.

Who's complaining? I'm a pker and I'm looking for stricter consequences when reds die in stat loss. I personally remember it as a flat percentage regardless of wether your were at 100 kills or 10.

It has always been a percentage based on the amount of current murder's you have been reported for. That system has been in place since UO started. The worst possible case for stat loss EVER was always -20%, which at 100 skill yields -20 down to 80.0. That is a very significant loss, regardless of how effectively you can macro..

alatar wrote:It has always been a percentage based on the amount of current murder's you have been reported for. That system has been in place since UO started.

Wrong, ever heard of Dread Lord Days? Anyway, stat loss was more severe during real t2a. I'm almost positive on that. Anyone have documentation showing stat loss here is correct?

I'm tending to lean towards a flat rate of 20% whether you were one kill over or a million. I don't think it worked by .1 per kill or whatever it is here. Someone find this info plz hehe

alatar wrote:

Mirage wrote:

Flash Hardstar wrote:when you died as a red stat loss used to be horendous, 95 is not bad, and quit complaining if you're just going to "macro" it off... not like you're putting much effort. You don't have to be a red pk you know! Or dont be so careless and either fight people you can't kill, or put yourslef in situations you can't escape. =/ theres a few reds on this shard who do a good job with this.

Who's complaining? I'm a pker and I'm looking for stricter consequences when reds die in stat loss. I personally remember it as a flat percentage regardless of wether your were at 100 kills or 10.

It has always been a percentage based on the amount of current murder's you have been reported for. That system has been in place since UO started. The worst possible case for stat loss EVER was always -20%, which at 100 skill yields -20 down to 80.0. That is a very significant loss, regardless of how effectively you can macro..

Sorry but you're flat out wrong, Dread Lord days there was no stat loss.

I think this needs a serious look by Derrick and the staff. This is why guild wars were so popular, no one wanted to take a count and go statloss because you HAD to macro off kills until you weren't stat loss anymore. Everyone tried to get 1000 wars on their stone because of this....so everyone would be orange to you. You barely saw any reds anywhere, and when you did, they were getting ganked. Perma red might also be something to be look into, I'm pretty sure 5 times going red you were perma red.

I do remember that as well Mirage, pertaining to 5 times red and you're perma.

Sorry but you're flat out wrong, Dread Lord days there was no stat loss.

I think this needs a serious look by Derrick and the staff. This is why guild wars were so popular, no one wanted to take a count and go statloss because you HAD to macro off kills until you weren't stat loss anymore. Everyone tried to get 1000 wars on their stone because of this....so everyone would be orange to you. You barely saw any reds anywhere, and when you did, they were getting ganked. Perma red might also be something to be look into, I'm pretty sure 5 times going red you were perma red.[/quote]

Just to set the record straight on stat loss during the early days, this is the recorded patch that actually put the initial version of stat loss in place on OSI:

• Bounty hunting - From the 12/9/97 Patch Notes
• When someone is killed by another player, they may choose to report the crime if
  • The victim is dishonorable or better notoriety
  • The victim is not as bad a murderer as the person who killed them
  • The victim is not currently flagged a criminal (two minutes since they committed a criminal act)
• At death, a window will pop up giving the choice to report the crime or not. A player can choose to not report a killing if it was accidental, or if they feel it was especially well-roleplayed, or if it was part of a guild war, etc.
• If a killer accumulates too many reports:
  • All of their goods in the bank will be confiscated on the spot.
  • The gold they may have had in the bank is added to the local bounty for their head.
  • The killer's notoriety falls instantly to Dread Lord. (It is not "stuck" there--you can still rise if you can manage it).
  • A bounty is posted on the closest bulletin board listing the killer's name, a physical description (hair color, hairstyle, skin color), a tally of kills, and the names of some of their victims.
• Reports "age" out, but once a bounty is set on you, it remains even if you don't kill anyone else for a long time.
• Every time you get reported after a bounty is set, your bank is cleaned out again, and a local bounty is reissued. This can result in the bounty price continuing to rise. Bounties are local, meaning that different cities may have different rewards and different kill tallies for a given outlaw.
• The outlaw must be killed under the following circumstances:
  • The person who kills him must be a player (of course)
  • The person who kills him must have a lower tally of reported murders than the outlaw does.
  • The person who kills him must be above neutral notoriety.
• When the outlaw is killed under the above circumstances
  • They lose 10% from all stats and skills on the spot, regardless of resurrection methods.
  • A head labelled with their name is automatically placed in the backpack of the bounty hunter.
• The head must be returned to a guard whose beat is near the bulletin board where the bounty is posted. Since bounties are local, returning the head to the wrong city won't work. You can also choose to return it to any of the cities where a bounty is posted, choosing the best based on the reward offered. Also, some cities may have multiple "precincts" if they have multiple bulletin boards; find a guard near the board that has the bounty posted.
• Only the bounty hunter can turn in the head.
• The bounty hunter must be of better than neutral notoriety when the head is turned in.
• Fake heads won't work.
• The gold posted for the local reward will be given to the bounty hunter by the guard.
• Bounties may remain posted in other cities even though the reward has been claimed, but a given bounty can only be claimed once in the world, unless the killer returns to their ways. This will likely result in a killer who has bounties in multiple cities getting killed over and over again by eager reward claimants, for no gain. Our advice is, don't end up with lots of bounties on your head.

This shows that stat-loss and the notoriety system (a la Dread Lord days) existed in tandem for a significant portion of UO's history. It also shows that a real, significant, punishment for the murder of other players was among the first changes to take place in UO (within 3 months of its release). The difference between the two systems is that the original system was based on a simple murder counter, while the later system was dependent on long term and short term status to determine your eligibility to receive stat loss (the old murder system became the 8 hour short-terms in the murder system that was used starting in April of 99). The two systems also differed in the distribution and severity of the stat loss to murderers; early murderers received a 10% stat-loss on death, while later day murderers received a scaled stat loss dependent on the number of short-term murder counts that they had upon resurrection.