Double hits occurr too often and easily

[son]

I hated the 35 dex UOSA era, I objected to it and remained with 25 dex, simply because it never was era acurate. I knew it was the superior build and yet refused to "adapt". With the new system, as far as I understand it, the 35 dex tank advantage is nullified (primarily because they can no longer steal your hally swing). For the most part I was very excited for the new pvp patch.

So far I mostly love this new patch, the pvp is faster, and albeit I feel like weapon damages are a bit ridiculous, the system can be worked with.

However when I am out pvping I just dont have confidence, especially on a stat char, because I can die at any instance from 100%, and it would not be any kind of fluke.

I have seen people die to hally dexers in 1 volley from 100% (not weakened).

I have seen people pull off double hits almost every duel I have watched.

I have learned to read when a double hit is being prepared during a duel, however, a double hit can occur if someone is sitting idle at the brit gy (even someone hidden). If they lunge at you and successfully hit both times, you could die.

My objection is the occurrence percentage. I believe the double hit occurred in era, but how often did it happen, and how easy was it to do? If during era double hits were so prevalent, then we would have seen many many MANY more hally dexers. It would be the talk of the era!

They would have mastered the mechanic to try and one shot each other, this however did not occur.

I carried a similar argument against the uosa 35 dex tank build, if it was good during era, then everyone would have had it in era. Everyone who played tanks in era had 25 dex, we all knew this.

[Sandro]

So what are you suggesting...?

[nightshark]

I've posted how it works and why it is broken, I don't like it either. Looping timer is not era accurate, if anything it should only be applying when going from disarmed -> armed. That makes double hits a lot more readable and era accurate than they are currently.

http://forum.uosecondage.com/viewtopic. ... 7&p=193625&
Agree, totally NEA

With the new fix to swing on the run, double hits just got even more random than they were before.

[TheEttinKing]

its fine quit complaining if your getting wooped by a tank mage and ur a dexxor you go make a tank so...

GO MAKE HALLY DEXXORS!

[Psilo]

The only issue I have is the dexer's double hit.

It's not that easy to double hit a mage, all you gotta do is force them to swing their hally before the 3(real time seconds) is up.

Dexer is another story, it's definitely random since the dexer keeps the weapon equipped and it has a loop.

I think something should be tweaked about it until we can further investigate. Take the loop off the dexer one, good enough. Mages can't loop it anyway, they need to cycle and equip 3 seconds which can easily be understood and avoided. Attack last combatant is your friend vs double hits(against mages mainly)

[nightshark]

The only issue I have is the dexer's double hit.

It's not that easy to double hit a mage, all you gotta do is force them to swing their hally before the 3(real time seconds) is up.

Dexer is another story, it's definitely random since the dexer keeps the weapon equipped and it has a loop.

I think something should be tweaked about it until we can further investigate. Take the loop off the dexer one, good enough. Mages can't loop it anyway, they need to cycle and equip 3 seconds which can easily be understood and avoided. Attack last combatant is your friend vs double hits(against mages mainly)

put easily enough: remove it, it's NEA.

of course it's not as easy as just removing it, it's a side effect of trying to replicate OSI mechanics using different code. we just need code saying that the timer should not loop when a weapon's timer has already elapsed.

[Mikel123]

I agree with nightshark.

As I understand it, you can prep a wrestle swing, arm a hally, and achieve a double-hit at every successive increment of your hally timer. So at 25 dex, it might look like:

unarmed for 3 seconds = wrestle swing ready
arm hally, wait 4.75 seconds, move next to opponent to get a swing right then (the wrestle swing) and another .25 seconds later (the hally swing)

The problem as I see it is, it's 4.75 seconds OR 9.75 seconds OR 14.75 seconds, etc. The wrestling swing never goes away,

My understanding is that the wrestling swing should go away as soon as you have completed another swing timer.

So unarmed for 3 seconds, equip halberd, and at 5.0 seconds when your halberd swing timer has completed, you lose your wrestling swing and are only sitting on a prepped halberd swing.

Additionally, and I haven't tested this much, but I am pretty sure you couldn't accomplish the double-hit with just a dexer weapon. So if people are using a kryss the whole time, there should be absolutely no way to accomplish the double hit. It sounds like people are able to do so, however?!

[Sandro]

Additionally, and I haven't tested this much, but I am pretty sure you couldn't accomplish the double-hit with just a dexer weapon. So if people are using a kryss the whole time, there should be absolutely no way to accomplish the double hit. It sounds like people are able to do so, however?!

This is the problem that I do not understand either. How is this possible by simply arming a weapon?

[Grom]

my question is this. Obviously people don't like double hit, who would, it gives you the chance of being at 100% hp then suddenly nothing, possibly dead. Obviously it was an unintended bug. So why are people complaining directly at dexers, but at the same time trying to justify a mage being able to do it. It's the exact same situation, only without tactics and instead a pre-casted ebolt, still enough to instantly drop someone from 100% if it goes off succesfully. Although dexers may do it more frequently, I don't think that justifies a double standard where they're not supposed to be able to do it but mages can. It would make more sense to remove it all together imo.

[Roser]

we just need code saying that the timer should not loop when a weapon's timer has already elapsed.

This ^

Right now dexers can "fluke" double hit. This doesn't even require an unequip/equip action to achieve.

Somehow double hits must be capped to only occur within a certain amount of time (dependent on dexterity) after a weapon is equipped, and only once. That is to say that there should be only one window upon equipping a weapon to execute a double hit, not multiple windows as we have now.

I understand there are 2 kinds of swing timers a "swing state" and a "swing advance" (I could be mistaken). It seems one of these timers should only cycle once upon equipping a weapon while the other continually cycles.
Although I rly don't know, I'm not a scripter hehe, its just my stoned interpretation of what I think is going on.

Edit for Grom's sake: Mages CAN pull off the lazy double hit too, its just ALOT less frequent and has a way bigger timer delay due to dexterity.

[Sissypants]

A guard double hit me.

I wasn't amused.

[Grom]

Edit for Grom's sake: Mages CAN pull off the lazy double hit too, its just ALOT less frequent and has a way bigger timer delay due to dexterity.

I know that, maybe you misread my point. People complain that dexers are getting double hits to basically insta-kill, which should be something people would complain about, it's lame and obviously a bug. A mage, through luck, timing, or some complex macro, can do a double hit as well, and have magic pre-casted to make up for the loss of dmg on the swings from no tactics, also generating an insta kill thanks to double hit (even though WITHOUT double hit a good hally mage can insta kill already). Why does it make sense to remove double hits only for dexers, but still let mages wrestle exploit to pull one off, it's just giving one playstyle a bug to exploit for double damage, double hitting should be removed entirely for everyone.

[Sandro]

1: Tank mages have tactics.
2: We aren't complaining about dexxers, its the way the code works and it isn't suppose to work by simply equipping a weapon, and holding it in your hand.

Dexxers can do it just the same as mages, but they would have to manipulate the insta-hit feature to do so, not just arm <weapon> and chase.

[Roser]

Read this again Grom.

Somehow double hits must be capped to only occur within a certain amount of time (dependent on dexterity) after a weapon is equipped, and only once. That is to say that there should be only one window upon equipping a weapon to execute a double hit, not multiple windows as we have now.

Listen Grom, the double hit wouldn't be "taken away" from Dexers, in fact Dexers can do the double hit the same way tank mages can except way faster.

To execute the double hit the "unequip/equip pause hit-hit" way is the only accurate way to go about it.
Being able to double hit at random with an already equipped weapon is an obvious flaw in the system.
A Double hit should be seen as a rare and skilled combat maneuver, not a frequently random occurrence.

Edit: Thank you Sandro. Pay attention Grom.

[Grom]

A Double hit should be seen as a rare and skilled combat maneuver, not a frequently random occurrence.
.

I guess this is where we differ in opinion, since I am paying attention and readin what you guys are saying. Exploiting a mechanic that obviously was not intentional and an exploit to do double swings is not something I consider a "rare" or "skilled" combat maneuver, it's a bug/exploit, something that will be heavily automated/exploited by already heavily macro dependant combat. Why have it at all, were's the logic/desire for it, a good hally mage can insta-kill someone if a combo goes off flawlessly, dexers are able to chase and do damage now. Why is there the desire to add/keep a mechanic that allows you to exploit weapon timers into swinging twice instead of once, nearly insta-gibbing an opponent if you use a hally.