Quarter staff swing speed = inaccurate

[Matt]

I will delete my account if I'm wrong on this one. I had a macer from beta until 2001 and played him often. I also have a macer on this shard. The speed of the qstaff is extremely slow. We once referred to the Qstaff as the "mage killer." If this doesn't get changed, you won't be seeing any mages being slayed 1v1 to a dexer with a qstaff. Any skilled macer was once a huge threat to all mages. I may not know a whole lot but I know this part of the newest patch is off. I have other quarrels that I will bring up later but I wanted to focus on one topic at a time. Please, I beg you, take another look at this. My dexer is virtually worthless now, even while tossing explosion pots left and right. With this patch, he's been made obsolete.

*I want to add that, in addition to numerous testings of just this weapon post-patch, I attacked and ran/walked alongside a mage today for about 30 full seconds before he recalled. I didn't get one swing off. Nevermind a hit, not a single swing. He was even stopped for a brief period by monsters several times. That is just not right. Logging onto my dexer, this was the first thing I noticed and I noticed it instantly.

[Pro]

You need to take into account the connection speed and how good computers were back then as opposed to the current situation.

[Derrick]

Quarter staff should swing every 1.5 seconds at 100 stamina, and every 2.5 seconds at 25 stamina.
The speed tables are here: http://www.uosecondage.com/stratics/arms.html
The math is here: http://www.uosecondage.com/stratics/combat.html

Attack Speed= 15,000 ÷ ( [Stamina +100] x Weapon Speed )

Was your stamina depleted?

I'd like to look at the weapon you were using to rule out any specific weapon bug (please page in game), but in testing this with a new Quarter Staff, the swing speed was as expected.

I'd very much like to find the source of this discrepancy, as the deletion of your account would be a tragedy

[Mikel123]

I will delete my account if I'm wrong on this one. I had a macer from beta until 2001 and played him often. I also have a macer on this shard. The speed of the qstaff is extremely slow.

I, too, remember q-staffs being very fast, but this comes from post-1999 play, as it appears your last couple years of memories come from. Also, q-staffs are as fast as katanas on this shard (sigh), so... they're pretty freaking fast as it is.

Your best bet is to look at archive.org for the old UO Powergamers site.

EDIT: I just looked up the old UOPG and couldn't find anything about them; however the post archives were having a tough time loading. Try pulling up the monthly news archives and searching for "staff". Nieves was a big mace guy, usually using war hammers, but I bet he has some commentary on q-staffs.

DOUBLE-EDIT: it looks like by May, 2000, q-staffs were not doing stamina or armor damage anymore. They may have received a bump in speed at that time; that strikes me as vaguely familiar. But this is well after 1999, in any case.

http://www.uopowergamers.com/a-may00.shtml

Tailoring, Carpentry, Tinkering - I basically look at these as add-ons to a good Smith mule. With q-staffs no longer dealing stamina loss or armour damage, there isn't a lot you can make with Carpentry that consistently sells on vendors.

[SoundofGod]

*I want to add that, in addition to numerous testings of just this weapon post-patch, I attacked and ran/walked alongside a mage today for about 30 full seconds before he recalled. I didn't get one swing off. Nevermind a hit, not a single swing. He was even stopped for a brief period by monsters several times. That is just not right. Logging onto my dexer, this was the first thing I noticed and I noticed it instantly.

QFT

I ran next to and behind a fleeing player yesterday without swinging one time... but this wasn't the first... i've even run INTO other players while attacking and nothing happens... It's almost funny now. I'm not crying, but i will say that this example that is being given was experiened by me.

FYI: My ping is 95 avg.

How to duplicate:

Get two players to run around brit graveyard - side by side near the fence almost as if in a race - each attacking each other... often, no one swings their weapon...

[Faust]

A swing doesn't advance when moving... read a little and get yourself up to date on the latest swing timer changes. The way this worked prior to this patch was a complete pause to everything including the timer itself. However, the way it works now is that a swing just doesn't advance when it's ready to swing during movement even though the timer still continues to tick.

[Matt]

Quarter staff should swing every 1.5 seconds at 100 stamina, and every 2.5 seconds at 25 stamina.
The speed tables are here: http://www.uosecondage.com/stratics/arms.html
The math is here: http://www.uosecondage.com/stratics/combat.html

Attack Speed= 15,000 ÷ ( [Stamina +100] x Weapon Speed )

Was your stamina depleted?

I'd like to look at the weapon you were using to rule out any specific weapon bug (please page in game), but in testing this with a new Quarter Staff, the swing speed was as expected.

I'd very much like to find the source of this discrepancy, as the deletion of your account would be a tragedy

lol Trust me I would like to stay too but I love playing on my dexer and as this patch stands, it's going to be impossible for me to compete with mages 1v1. My stamina was full at first, then after chasing him it dropped maybe to 8/10 or so. There was no reason in the world of UO I shouldn't have gotten several swings off and there were none.

I feel, with this specific weapon, that it was more accurate before the patch. Was it dead on? probably not. You guys are the experts. But I am certain it was more accurate pre-patch. I'm not talking about any other weapon here. Just the Qstaff. I can't run alongside and hit. As mentioned before, even if the player being attacked stops briefly to turn or is stopped by a monster or a tree, the swings just aren't there anymore.

A previous poster has mentioned that he is experiencing the same problem with the same weapon. I will do what research I can when I have time, if it's even out there, but I urge you to take another look at this weapon. I love playing the hally mage but I feel dexers, in general, are slowly losing their effectiveness-- but that's for another thread. This was the era of the pure warrior. I love playing a warrior so I just needed to speak my piece. I worked most of my dexer's skills manually and if it stands as it is I'd rather have another replica of my hally mage. Feel like I wasted my time now and it is frustrating.

[Derrick]

I feel, with this specific weapon, that it was more accurate before the patch. Was it dead on? probably not. You guys are the experts. But I am certain it was more accurate pre-patch. I'm not talking about any other weapon here. Just the Qstaff. I can't run alongside and hit. As mentioned before, even if the player being attacked stops briefly to turn or is stopped by a monster or a tree, the swings just aren't there anymore.

I'm anxious to get to the bottom of this. Nothing specifically regarding macing, or any specific weapon saw changes in the patch, all weapons function in the same manner. The weapon will of course swing pretty slow if your stamina is depleted to such low levels, but the absolute maximum swing delay is 3 seconds per swing, that's with zero stamina. Any stops or pauses as you described nullifies any concern about stopping before swinging; something else was going on here. You did not mention disarming and rearming, or tabbing out and rettacking in your post, if there was any of this going on, please elaborate.

[Matt]

I feel, with this specific weapon, that it was more accurate before the patch. Was it dead on? probably not. You guys are the experts. But I am certain it was more accurate pre-patch. I'm not talking about any other weapon here. Just the Qstaff. I can't run alongside and hit. As mentioned before, even if the player being attacked stops briefly to turn or is stopped by a monster or a tree, the swings just aren't there anymore.

I'm anxious to get to the bottom of this. Nothing specifically regarding macing, or any specific weapon saw changes in the patch, all weapons function in the same manner. The weapon will of course swing pretty slow if your stamina is depleted to such low levels, but the absolute maximum swing delay is 3 seconds per swing, that's with zero stamina. Any stops or pauses as you described nullifies any concern about stopping before swinging; something else was going on here. You did not mention disarming and rearming, or tabbing out and rettacking in your post, if there was any of this going on, please elaborate.

no tabbing out, disarming or re-arming, just chasing a mage around the AW room.

semi-off topic: i remember being able to run along side someone and hit them every once in a while with a quick weapon even if we were both side by side. that part of the game is gone?

*seriously thanks for all the time you put into this.

[potamus]

Maybe we are all just adjusting here, but as a third voice, I as well have been experiencing what seems like a deeper issue then just mere game play mechanics. I really do not have much more detail to add to the authors already current concerns. That said maybe us dexxers must adjust and adopted new (or old if you will) tact?

[Mikel123]

This is maddening. So many quotes, all lacking specificity.

June 15, 2000
http://www.uopowergamers.com/a-june00.shtml

I haven't had a whole lot to post on in the last week or so, mainly because no one really needs to hear my grief about training Carpentry (final add-on skill for my magnificent mule and pretty much useless for anything else now that q-staffs no longer rulez the universe)

Again, he's talking about the change to q-staffs that stopped them from doing stamina and armor damage.

So it appears, before then, that they did "rule the universe". As for how this translates into stats, I don't know.

[potamus]

Upon more testing this morning I think my issues with q-staffs and swing speed was only caused by some of the lag issues we've been having.

[Derrick]

Upon more testing this morning I think my issues with q-staffs and swing speed was only caused by some of the lag issues we've been having.

Thanks for the update. That certainly has been a problem. Working on that!

[Matt]

Upon more testing this morning I think my issues with q-staffs and swing speed was only caused by some of the lag issues we've been having.

I hate to be the debbie downer here but I think you're being optomistic. I notieced this the second I started swinging my Qstaff in combat.

Derek: Was the Qstaff faster-swinging before the patch than it is now? If so, by how much?

[Matt]

Maybe we are all just adjusting here, but as a third voice, I as well have been experiencing what seems like a deeper issue then just mere game play mechanics. I really do not have much more detail to add to the authors already current concerns. That said maybe us dexxers must adjust and adopted new (or old if you will) tact?

What tactics are you suggesting? We should be doing the same shit we did back in the day if this is accurate enough. Dexers RULED this era. Here were the tactics: Chase down mages with quick weapons while chugging and throwing pots like it's our job-- and applying and reapplying poison if that's our thing.

Now I'm lucky If I can murder someone who has no mount at the top of the graveyard before he can make it to the guard zone. Something isn't right.