pk's in the server

[Philzin]

well guys I just want to speak about this stuff thats totally annoying, I really like this server a LOT and I'm calling old friends that used to play for a looong time to come here and start playing again (like I did), BUT I dont agree to that skill/stat loss thing and I'm pretty sure that a lot of people want to play here but when they read about this they just skip the server and start looking for another one...why? one of the greatest things about UO is the freedom that we have to do whatever we want... we all know that some players used to be pk's for all their lives, and they enjoy being the "bad guys" in the game, so why choose that method of punishing people that can take up to 20% of their skills if they die? thats totally crazy, imagine if you put a lot of time and hard work to build a strong char and then you wanna be a pk,lets say you get red, someone kills you and PAAAM you lost magery, and those hard-to-raise skills... is that fair?? what we are seeing here is a lot of blue pks, people that kill you when you leave the town and after that they wait a loooong time doing nothing 'til the kill decays... and some people that get red and leave their ghosts online for a ton of hours waiting to lose the red status

for me that skill/stat loss method looks like an excuse for people who are afraid of being killed, I dont know, thats just my opinion... and if Im here posting this is cuz I want the shard to grow and to be the best for all

I miss those times when we had pk's and apk's in the britain bridge fighting...

having waaay less cities and without guard protection (wich means that blues can raid your cities any time) is enough for red people, its not easy to be a good pk you gotta be "hard-backed"

[Salladhar Saan]

blah blah blah

"Second Age is the most accurate emulation of the UO: T2A era online today. There are no giveaways. On UO Second Age you will build your character(s) from the ground up. We will stay as accurate to the Pre-UO:R/T2A era as we can."

[ScoobyDoO]

well guys I just want to speak about this stuff thats totally annoying, I really like this server a LOT and I'm calling old friends that used to play for a looong time to come here and start playing again (like I did), BUT I dont agree to that skill/stat loss thing and I'm pretty sure that a lot of people want to play here but when they read about this they just skip the server and start looking for another one...why? one of the greatest things about UO is the freedom that we have to do whatever we want... we all know that some players used to be pk's for all their lives, and they enjoy being the "bad guys" in the game, so why choose that method of punishing people that can take up to 20% of their skills if they die? thats totally crazy, imagine if you put a lot of time and hard work to build a strong char and then you wanna be a pk,lets say you get red, someone kills you and PAAAM you lost magery, and those hard-to-raise skills... is that fair?? what we are seeing here is a lot of blue pks, people that kill you when you leave the town and after that they wait a loooong time doing nothing 'til the kill decays... and some people that get red and leave their ghosts online for a ton of hours waiting to lose the red status

for me that skill/stat loss method looks like an excuse for people who are afraid of being killed, I dont know, thats just my opinion... and if Im here posting this is cuz I want the shard to grow and to be the best for all

I miss those times when we had pk's and apk's in the britain bridge fighting...

having waaay less cities and without guard protection (wich means that blues can raid your cities any time) is enough for red people, its not easy to be a good pk you gotta be "hard-backed"

I agree with you to a certain point. I dont know about getting rid of stat loss all together, maybe a temp thing. You die red, maybe wait 6 or 7 hours till u can rezz again. If you just let reds die and rez whenever they want, there would be a sudden burst of pks destroying every noob at gy not giving them the chance to try the shard them selfs. People cry and whine about T2A accurate but sometimes, its not always the best thing. So like i said, to a point If you wanted to really be T2A accurate, put back in server lines so we can dupe the shard to hell or but back where u can get stuck in a gate, move your stuff around log out and it will double, technically that would be T2A accurate.

[Philzin]

well guys I just want to speak about this stuff thats totally annoying, I really like this server a LOT and I'm calling old friends that used to play for a looong time to come here and start playing again (like I did), BUT I dont agree to that skill/stat loss thing and I'm pretty sure that a lot of people want to play here but when they read about this they just skip the server and start looking for another one...why? one of the greatest things about UO is the freedom that we have to do whatever we want... we all know that some players used to be pk's for all their lives, and they enjoy being the "bad guys" in the game, so why choose that method of punishing people that can take up to 20% of their skills if they die? thats totally crazy, imagine if you put a lot of time and hard work to build a strong char and then you wanna be a pk,lets say you get red, someone kills you and PAAAM you lost magery, and those hard-to-raise skills... is that fair?? what we are seeing here is a lot of blue pks, people that kill you when you leave the town and after that they wait a loooong time doing nothing 'til the kill decays... and some people that get red and leave their ghosts online for a ton of hours waiting to lose the red status

for me that skill/stat loss method looks like an excuse for people who are afraid of being killed, I dont know, thats just my opinion... and if Im here posting this is cuz I want the shard to grow and to be the best for all

I miss those times when we had pk's and apk's in the britain bridge fighting...

having waaay less cities and without guard protection (wich means that blues can raid your cities any time) is enough for red people, its not easy to be a good pk you gotta be "hard-backed"

I agree with you to a certain point. I dont know about getting rid of stat loss all together, maybe a temp thing. You die read, maybe wait 6 or 7 hours till u can rezz again. If you just let reds die and rez whenever they want, there would be a sudden burst of pks destroying every noob at gy not giving them the chance to try the shard them selfs. People cry and whine about T2A accurate but sometimes, its not always the best thing. So like i said, to a point

yeah like I said Im just looking for a better option, cuz with this system we'll never see wars between blues and reds

[ScoobyDoO]

well guys I just want to speak about this stuff thats totally annoying, I really like this server a LOT and I'm calling old friends that used to play for a looong time to come here and start playing again (like I did), BUT I dont agree to that skill/stat loss thing and I'm pretty sure that a lot of people want to play here but when they read about this they just skip the server and start looking for another one...why? one of the greatest things about UO is the freedom that we have to do whatever we want... we all know that some players used to be pk's for all their lives, and they enjoy being the "bad guys" in the game, so why choose that method of punishing people that can take up to 20% of their skills if they die? thats totally crazy, imagine if you put a lot of time and hard work to build a strong char and then you wanna be a pk,lets say you get red, someone kills you and PAAAM you lost magery, and those hard-to-raise skills... is that fair?? what we are seeing here is a lot of blue pks, people that kill you when you leave the town and after that they wait a loooong time doing nothing 'til the kill decays... and some people that get red and leave their ghosts online for a ton of hours waiting to lose the red status

for me that skill/stat loss method looks like an excuse for people who are afraid of being killed, I dont know, thats just my opinion... and if Im here posting this is cuz I want the shard to grow and to be the best for all

I miss those times when we had pk's and apk's in the britain bridge fighting...

having waaay less cities and without guard protection (wich means that blues can raid your cities any time) is enough for red people, its not easy to be a good pk you gotta be "hard-backed"

I agree with you to a certain point. I dont know about getting rid of stat loss all together, maybe a temp thing. You die read, maybe wait 6 or 7 hours till u can rezz again. If you just let reds die and rez whenever they want, there would be a sudden burst of pks destroying every noob at gy not giving them the chance to try the shard them selfs. People cry and whine about T2A accurate but sometimes, its not always the best thing. So like i said, to a point

yeah like I said Im just looking for a better option, cuz with this system we'll never see wars between blues and reds

Agreed.

[Twiz]

I think that we won't see wars between blues and reds because it is so easy to macro off kill counts. As long as you can log in while you're at work or asleep, there's no reason to stay red. I have plenty of respect for the PKs that stay red.
Also, I'm pretty sure that when ppl are looking for T2A accuracy, aren't looking for all the exploits/cheats. They are looking for accurate gameplay. Any one upset with the fact that they can't dupe their shit prob won't stay around regardless of how the stat loss system works. They'll go some place they don't have to work to earn their living like Divinity.

[johttenn]

Being a red means something here, and T2A has some really fucking good reds, if annoying at times (*ahem* Wylan, Deacon...my heart jumps when I see one of you guys start running towards my lockpicker, thank god my recall has always worked .

Listen, when you die it's not BAM loose your skills, only if you rez red then you loose skills, so you only have to macro off your counts.

Plus since afk macroing is legal here, you can macro up just about any skill fairly quickly. Magery and Resist are not hard to train and gain, just expensive, they both can be done in two or three nights macroing. Magery from 80 to GM would take only 20-30k. So either macro off 3 kills a day sitting as a ghost at WBB, or macro your skills back up.

Being a red means something here and I sure hope they don't nerf it for prospective players, ya'll will just want something else nerfed later on.

There is some debate about adding long-term counts, still if your short-terms were over 5 you would incur statloss, but at least then you would be perma-red...however, being red should be work.

[Silverfoot]

This topic has been brought up before. The thing here is that this shard goes for era accuracy, not catering to pvp or what have you in order to bring in more players. The addition of longterm counts would probably get rid of the blue pk problem.

That being said, while there aren't necessarily blue vs. red wars, there are quite a bit of chaos vs. order fights and guild wars that go on outside of town.

[Philzin]

For me pk's should stay red (long term counts) and I think that there's a better option than losing skill/stat... or if you guys really want skill/stat loss it should be way less points than it's now

[Purge]

Era accuracy FTMFW

[chumbucket]

While I think long term counts would be best, I would like to go on the record as saying there are other ways of being a bad guy.

[Kaivan]

Unfortunately, no stat-loss is very inaccurate to T2A. In fact, stat loss has existed since December of 1997, under the older 8 hour murder count system where you lost your stats and skills upon death. As such, removing stat loss, or making it any less severe than it currently is, would defeat the purpose of UOSA. While the older stat lost system is technically accurate to the time frame (in so much as it existed during T2A), the old murder system was not the system which was used for the majority of T2A, and was not the system that was intended for the duration of T2A.

In my personal opinion, the long term/short term murder count system is the proper system to have here on UOSA, as it was the intended system for T2A.

[Redbeard72]

i just started a week ago and i love this shard the way it is lol leave it alone....

[McTavish]

I too just started on this server. I played UO from 1997 through to 2000, Chesapeake, then Catskills when it opened then moved to Drachenfels.

To understand why the stat loss for reds was brought in you have to understand the fundamental issue at the time: i.e. should there be a potential penalty for those who force non-consenting PvP? Due to subscription issues for EA/Origin it was decided that the best method for maintaining the player base was to limit the non-consenting PvP and we've seen where that's taken the game....

However, in my opinion, non-stat loss for reds provided the purest and highest form of MMORPG available. Order / Chaos, Guild Wars, Realms etc are all defined by a set of rules as an addendum to the normal game rules but Blue vs Red uses the game mechanics alone to define the balance and the rule set, i.e. if you like pure good vs evil.

IMO UO always provided the best test of PvP skill in any MMORPG because it's a level playing field without classes.

Stat loss for reds was and I believe still is, the cowards way out. It admits defeat to PKs because it says: if we make it level (i.e. no stat loss) then we can't control you and you'll destroy the game therefore we need to limit you.

I remember when these changes were made I felt it was using a sledge hammer to crack a nut. It wasn't reds per say that was the problem but a combination of problems within the game.

Anyway, I guess we are where we are and I'm playing here because I like the idea of something being stable and consistent and I'm grateful for the time, effort and cash that's been spent in getting to where this place is. Maybe I won't ever get those old day feelings of pure red v blue running battles.

Anyone remember when the fixed chests in dungeons used to spawn items instead of the random pop-up chests? I always remember being a newb running from brit to despise with the others to loot those chests always rushing in case a pk was on the prowl. Always wanted revenge, eventually tried pk'ing myself and found it great. Was a strange kind of brotherhood being in a pk guild, maybe it's the age at the time but it was a feeling a rebellious belonging. That's a feeling that order/chaos or whatever else people can dream up is never going to give.

Anyway cheers for the effort, one day my char will be ready, my skills (both game and pvp) are pretty poor at the moment but that'll soon change.

[Kaivan]

To suggest that pking was the sole reason for the downfall of UO is to suggest that UO wasn't headed towards the introduction of Trammel for only 4 months. Again, statloss has been in the game for a very very long time. Here are the patch notes which describe the introduction of statloss for pks. Observe the date of the patch notes:

12/9/97
Bounty hunting
- When someone is killed by another player, they may choose to report the crime if

• The victim is dishonorable or better notoriety
• The victim is not as bad a murderer as the person who killed them
• The victim is not currently flagged a criminal (two minutes since they committed a criminal act)

- At death, a window will pop up giving the choice to report the crime or not. A player can choose to not report a killing if it was accidental, or if they feel it was especially well-roleplayed, or if it was part of a guild war, etc.
- If a killer accumulates too many reports:

• All of their goods in the bank will be confiscated on the spot.
• The gold they may have had in the bank is added to the local bounty for their head.
• The killer's notoriety falls instantly to Dread Lord. (It is not "stuck" there--you can still rise if you can manage it).
• A bounty is posted on the closest bulletin board listing the killer's name, a physical description (hair color, hairstyle, skin color), a tally of kills, and the names of some of their victims.

- Reports "age" out, but once a bounty is set on you, it remains even if you don't kill anyone else for a long time.
- Every time you get reported after a bounty is set, your bank is cleaned out again, and a local bounty is reissued. This can result in the bounty price continuing to rise. Bounties are local, meaning that different cities may have different rewards and different kill tallies for a given outlaw.
- The outlaw must be killed under the following circumstances:

• The person who kills him must be a player (of course)
• The person who kills him must have a lower tally of reported murders than the outlaw does.
• The person who kills him must be above neutral notoriety.

When the outlaw is killed under the above circumstances

• They lose 10% from all stats and skills on the spot, regardless of resurrection methods.
• A head labelled with their name is automatically placed in the backpack of the bounty hunter.

- The head must be returned to a guard whose beat is near the bulletin board where the bounty is posted. Since bounties are local, returning the head to the wrong city won't work. You can also choose to return it to any of the cities where a bounty is posted, choosing the best based on the reward offered. Also, some cities may have multiple "precincts" if they have multiple bulletin boards; find a guard near the board that has the bounty posted.
- Only the bounty hunter can turn in the head.
- The bounty hunter must be of better than neutral notoriety when the head is turned in.
- Fake heads won't work.
- The gold posted for the local reward will be given to the bounty hunter by the guard.
- Bounties may remain posted in other cities even though the reward has been claimed, but a given bounty can only be claimed once in the world, unless the killer returns to their ways. This will likely result in a killer who has bounties in multiple cities getting killed over and over again by eager reward claimants, for no gain. Our advice is, don't end up with lots of bounties on your head.

Also, keep in mind that the idea of a murderer was, like Order/Chaos or any other addition to the game, an addendum to the rules of the game. Origonally, murder counts didn't exist at all in game, and the noriety title was merely meant to provide a history for your player and define the actions that could be done to your character by other players. The addition of murder counts was a later addendum to the game's mechanics, just like any other addition to the game.

Ultimately, the problem that existed for murderers, and eventually for thieves, was not that they were admitting defeat to pks as an uncontrollable force that would eventually destroy the game, but that simply speaking, the consequences for being a pk were not balanced with the reward that was reaped from being a pk. As a pk without murders or stat loss, you had the ability to attempt to kill a person on sight and take their items. Effectively, the risk and possible consequences for the action that the victimized player took were substantially greater, while the pk had to incur only minimal risk at the time of action, and far less severe consequences after their actions than was warranted for their actions (noriety loss which could be worked off quite easily and a 2 minute criminal timer).

Finally, the idea of no stat-loss, and to an extent the older stat-loss system, are far outside the purview of UOSA. UOSA has clearly set itself in the middle age of T2A with the use of several post-release additions:

• Anatomy, Tactics, Strength, and Armor (see the November 10, 1998 patch notes)
• Meditation, the new Resisting Spells system, and Evaluating Intelligence (from the Febuary 2, 23 and 24, 1999 patch notes respectively)
• The Thieves Guild, the new abilities for Detecting Hidden and Forensics, and new skills such as Remove Trap and Stealth (from the Febuary 24, 199 patch notes)
• Colored ore for Blacksmiths and the various deed craftables that a Carpenter was given the ability to make (from the Febuary 2 and March 28, 1999 patch notes respectively).

All of these changes were part of the shift that took place from the release of T2A, to the middle of T2A, where very few significant game mechanics changes were made (aside from the full lockdown system) until January 2000. The changes to murders were also part of this shift, and as such, clearly fit with the system that we have, and with the goals of UOSA.