UO Second Age

if you kill someone in the thieves guild, can they give you a murder count? i know they're blue and can guardwack if inside towns but i remember being able to kill them without receiving a murder count.

If you are killing a player thief in the thieves guild, it would depend on if they were perma grey or not I would think.

Even though a thief appears as blue, he may be perma grey.
When a thief dies after being perma grey, they don't become perma again until they steal from an innocent.

Hope that helps answers your question

If they are in the thieves' guild they CANNOT give a murder count even if they are blue.

Ah well then, i take back what i say without editing it so i get +1

Yes, you could do that and get a +1

lets all get +1. *high five to this thread* (thanks for answers =D)

Let me attempt to keep everyone in the dark about how thievery and perma death work:

Thieves cannot give counts unless they are perma grey. In that case, they cannot give counts to who they appear grey to but can give counts to anyone who attacks them using any of the following items: katana, kryss, halberd, quarterstaff, sheperd's crook. Attacks on said thieves with any of the following spells will result in murder counts and automatic stat loss: Energy Bolt, Explosion, Flamestrike, Mana Vampire. You will also get murder counts from killing thief guild members if Trammel is ascendent or the thief's name starts with the letter 'c'.

Stratics suggests that using forensic evaluation on someone in the thieves guild makes them gray. Never used the skill myself so I couldn't say. Unintentional rhyme.

Not sure if it does here or not; however, back on OSI I had a Detective, and you could make a thief gray to you, though not appear gray, by trying a random steal from him. If you did not receive the message about needing to be in the thieves' guild to steal from players then the player wasn't an innocent and you could attack them even in town.

This doesn't work here, so my detective is no hold

About using detect hidden on a thief to turn them grey: That only worked if the thief was already perma-grey in the first place. A thief would appear blue, regardless of Forensics skill, if they had not stolen.

johttenn wrote:Not sure if it does here or not; however, back on OSI I had a Detective, and you could make a thief gray to you, though not appear gray, by trying a random steal from him. If you did not receive the message about needing to be in the thieves' guild to steal from players then the player wasn't an innocent and you could attack them even in town.

This doesn't work here, so my detective is no hold

This was considered (questionable) a bug and was fixed mid era by OSI.

Any chance on getting this era-accurate bug? A gm guard/detective would be sweet...

Again, just as a reminder, the bug allowed you to determine whether a thief was perma-grey or not. It did not allow you to force an innocent thief to become grey. Also, this was fixed in-era as well, so the call is Derrick's as to whether it should be allowed here or not.

Aye. This bug undermines the usefulness of the forensic eval skill. You won't be able to detect a member of the thieves guild by attempting to steal from him.

As far as the forensic eval skill revealing perma-grays, I'll have to look into this.

As far as I remember it, you could have .0 skill in forensic eval and you could tell if they were a thief and/or perma grey