Era Accurate Terminology

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Stuck
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Era Accurate Terminology

Post by Stuck »

These were just a few ideas I've been having for a while. I figured actually defining these terms and analyzing how aspects of the game get changed might help us to better communicate on topics of era accuracy.

Perfect Era Accuracy - A specific era of t2a perfectly replicated. This concept is obviously an ideal and can never actually be achieved.

Selective/Eclectic Era Accuracy - A different ideal which inherently contradicts Perfect Era Accuracy. Selective era accuracy would be the ideal of including different aspects of all eras of T2A. For example, having stealable house deeds *and* house lockdowns at the same time.

Social Era Accuracy - The population and demographics of the original T2A. To elaborate, one of the arguments I've seen presented for the reason the game has a different social "feel" to it, is because of the lack of "noobs". Most of the people who play UO today are the hard-core players who really got into it. Most people here have 7x GM characters, know the dynamics of pvp, know exactly what skills to raise, how to raise them, where to hunt, etc. In T2A, not a very high percentage of people were 7x GM, not many people actually knew a whole lot about the game. Social Accuracy would entail perfectly replicating said T2A demographics. Obviously, this is an ideal and can never be achieved, but may prove to be a useful term?

Economic Era Accuracy - This is most likely impossible to achieve. The goal of this would be to perfectly replicate the economy during the original T2A. This would include things like item prices and prevalence.

Technical Accuracy - This would deal with certain client-side things like era accurate third party utilities. i.e. Should Razor be allowed? Is it similar enough to UOA to be allowed? Would OSI have endorsed it like they did UOA?

Peripheral Accuracy - Small things, like the text displayed when an item is single clicked, which font to use, etc.

Mechanical Accuracy - This includes any T2A mechanic: spell damage, cast time, certain bugs, skill delays, line of sight, server lines, etc.

Political Accuracy - This would deal with any t2a policy, like the anti-macro policy that was included in the original T2A, the question of whether automated events should be allowed, how many accounts a player is allowed to have, and so on.

Byproduct Accuracy - Changes that aren't exactly accurate, but would create an accurate situation through inaccurate means. As far as I understand, byproduct accuracy would encompass things like server births and black dye tubs. They existed in t2a but were introduced pre-t2a. So the inaccurate action of adding them in game, creates an accurate situation: they exist.

The way I see it. Right now we have perfect era accuracy as a kind of general goal. Mechanical era accuracy is pursued all the way in terms of pvp and certain other things, but what about bugs? Why hasn't the hide repair bug been included, or house loot bugs? House loot bugs obviously haven't been included because they can be used maliciously. That's understandable, but this leads me to believe that perfect era accuracy is not top priority in every case, and is more of a general goal which can have exceptions. Should there be some criteria or a method by which to determine what is considered a reasonable exception?

Peripheral accuracy seems to have been pursued all the way. There's been some debate about technical era accuracy in the past. Political accuracy doesn't seem to have been pursued at all.

Byproduct era accuracy has been coming up here and there in threads lately. i.e. Should people be limited to only one account so that it's harder block house spots with ghosts? Not a strictly accurate change, but as a byproduct it creates an accurate situation. Nobody remembers anyone blocking house spots with ghosts, do they?

Another topic relating to byproduct accuracy dealt with magic weapon drop rates. An example of implementation of byproduct accuracy here would be: Having monsters drop less magic weapons because our population to magic weapon ratio is too high, even though monsters have the same drop rates here as they did in the original T2A. The change is not strictly accurate, but if the change is implemented, it creates an accurate situation as a byproduct: good magic weapons are harder to come by, like they were originally in t2a. This would end up helping economic accuracy, but it would ultimately violate mechanical accuracy by changing the magic weapon drop rates. What is more important: mechanical or economic accuracy?

I think it would be good to identify exactly which concepts of era accuracy we currently go by and evaluate which are the most important. What do you guys think?

(If anyone else has conceived of terms that may be useful in discussing era accuracy post them here. :))

edit: Revised a lot.
Last edited by Stuck on Mon May 24, 2010 4:15 pm, edited 12 times in total.

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Mens Rea
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Re: Era Accurate Terminology

Post by Mens Rea »

I think with such definitive definitions it will be much easier to apply simple decision making processes to decisions regarding accuracy.

For instance, a simple balancing act. In some circumstances social accuracy might outweigh the ideal of perfect accuracy? Perhaps a popular change which is likely to bring people to the shard or promote congregation in particular areas of the world.

Do you think there is an inherent order of importance of these types of accuracy?

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Re: Era Accurate Terminology

Post by Stuck »

Mens Rea wrote:I think with such definitive definitions it will be much easier to apply simple decision making processes to decisions regarding accuracy.

For instance, a simple balancing act. In some circumstances social accuracy might outweigh the ideal of perfect accuracy? Perhaps a popular change which is likely to bring people to the shard or promote congregation in particular areas of the world.

Do you think there is an inherent order of importance of these types of accuracy?
I don't think there is an inherent order of importance to these concepts, but I think we should try to apply an order of priority to them ourselves.

The example I wrote next to byproduct accuracy (the magic weapons change) would end up helping economic accuracy, but it would ultimately violate mechanical accuracy by changing the magic weapon drop rates.

I suppose it's up to us to decide: what is more important in this situation? Mechanical accuracy? Or economic accuracy?

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Re: Era Accurate Terminology

Post by Mikel123 »

Better idea: let's log in and play the game :-)

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Re: Era Accurate Terminology

Post by Karik Verlee »

Mikel123 wrote:Better idea: let's log in and play the game :-)
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Re: Era Accurate Terminology

Post by Faust »

Ugh, socialism already moved into the U.S and now it's creeping into UO. :shock:

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Re: Era Accurate Terminology

Post by Stuck »

Faust wrote:Ugh, socialism already moved into the U.S and now it's creeping into UO. :shock:
What?? What are you talking about?

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Re: Era Accurate Terminology

Post by Faust »

Sounds like you are wanting 'speicific' features from different parts of the era creating a perversion of the era that never actually existed. This creates a socialist concept since everyone that wants their 'favorite' feature would be argued for non-stop until it was finally implemented and the majority of the suggestions would be conveyed by the players themselves in a democratic fashion. This is the way all t2a shards are handled and the number one reason they fail. That sort of approach is fine and dandy for a shard that isn't replicating a time period but it doesn't work for one that is.

Here is the same concept that has been brought up by me numerous times in the past taking two of the most famous features of the t2a era insta hit and precasting.

Insta hit was added in February '99.
Precasting was removed in January '00.

This can go a few different ways here.

System A
No Insta Hit - Early t2a
Precasting - Early/Mid t2a

System B
Insta Hit - Early/Mid t2a
Precasting - Early/Mid t2a

System C
No Insta Hit - Early t2a
No Precasting - Late t2a

There are 3 different systems that could be implemented with in this approach since the concept is 'pick and choose' among either the developers or playerbase. When you start throwing in features from all over the place creating even more inconsistencies it becomes a nightmare that only perverts the era into something that never existed defeating the purpose of the shard in the first place.

That is why you have to tick to a specific date and leave it at that unless you want to do something radical that was suggest by me awhile back such as creating a shard that loops from the start of t2a on day one to the end of t2a on the very last day before UOR hits.

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Re: Era Accurate Terminology

Post by Stuck »

Faust wrote:Sounds like you are wanting 'speicific' features from different parts of the era creating a perversion of the era that never actually existed.
When did I ever say that?

I listed "Selective Era Accuracy" as a potential ideal, but I never said that I was advocating it. Just like I listed "Perfect Era Accuracy" as a potential ideal, but I never said that I was advocating it.

I'm just throwing ideas out there. That was the whole point of my post.

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Re: Era Accurate Terminology

Post by Faust »

The word "Sounds" in my response doesn't incline anything but what was taken from your post by me evne if it's not true.

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Re: Era Accurate Terminology

Post by Stuck »

Faust wrote:The word "Sounds" in my response doesn't incline anything but what was taken from your post by me evne if it's not true.
Okay, I realize that. I was just trying to clear up your misinterpretation.

I may be for "selective" era accuracy to some degree, but that wasn't really the point of my post. I just wanted to give a definite list of era accuracy terms.

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Re: Era Accurate Terminology

Post by Karik Verlee »

Aren't we going for November of 99? So wouldn't that mean insta hit and precasting?

I personally don't like insta hit but ill go with it.
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Re: Era Accurate Terminology

Post by Faust »

Stuck wrote: Okay, I realize that. I was just trying to clear up your misinterpretation.

I may be for "selective" era accuracy to some degree, but that wasn't really the point of my post. I just wanted to give a definite list of era accuracy terms.
Well that is all fine but when you said...
Stuck wrote:I figured actually defining these terms might help us to communicate better as well as determine which direction we want to go with the shard.
to me... sounds like you want the shard to divert from its current course of action for replicating era accuracy heading into a new direction. The current process that is being used here is definitely the best approach. Stick to a a date and leave it that. No mechanic after the date will be included and anything patch/fix/added/whatever up to that point will be included in the shard. The griping and lobbying can't tear a rift in the community unlike with other shards. There is a reason this is the only shard in existence that has resulted in a net gain of players instead of vice versa.

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Re: Era Accurate Terminology

Post by Stuck »

Faust wrote:to me... sounds like you want the shard to divert from its current course of action for replicating era accuracy heading into a new direction. The current process that is being used here is definitely the best approach. Stick to a a date and leave it that. No mechanic after the date will be included and anything patch/fix/added/whatever up to that point will be included in the shard. The griping and lobbying can't tear a rift in the community unlike with other shards. There is a reason this is the only shard in existence that has resulted in a net gain of players instead of vice versa.
Like I mentioned in my original post, perfect era accuracy is the main goal here, but it seems to be more of a general goal than a strict goal. Right now there are exceptions to this goal (i.e. guild chat, party system, certain bugs that aren't included - hide repair for example). If we're going to have exceptions to era accuracy we should probably figure out a way to determine why these exceptions would be considered acceptable, or just have no exceptions at all. Those could be two examples of directions for the shard to go.
Last edited by Stuck on Mon May 24, 2010 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Era Accurate Terminology

Post by Halogen »

People quit UO right and left when a combination of whiners who didn't like something along with designers who needed to defend the continued existence of their jobs clamored for and introduced arbritrary changes and "balance fixes" to water down and destroy everything that made UO a unique and enjoyable game.....why aren't all of us playing the present UO?....not just because it costs money....more because everything that was good about UO has been sucked out of it, and replaced by shit masking as trying to make everyone happy.

The reason I'm here is the hope that there won't be constant, arbitrary changes, and that the same stupid blunders made on freeshard after freeshard won't be made here.

Hopefully Derrick likes this era, and has far more interest in this being a stable virtual world that HE likes, than say, having the highest population of any freeshard.

History is filled with comparable examples, the film world is perhaps the best.

The director that sets out to film his vision and let others be the judge may not have the immediate commercial success of the director that sets out to pander to the masses, but the critical verdict of history, as with UO, will usually be in his favor.

Derrick says hey, this is my shard, if you like it come and play, if not there are a zillion others out there for you dood.

I think this is a very very good way for things to be.

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