Best Tank Mage Weapon in-game test.

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MatronDeWinter
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Best Tank Mage Weapon in-game test.

Post by MatronDeWinter »

Over the past few days I have been toying around with the idea of using alternative weapons on a tank-type character. I know formulas are available, but I somehow find more integrity and satisfaction in data that I personally collect. Every weapon used during this test was "exceptional" with an exception for the Gnarled Staff (Which I did both exceptional and regular to gather numbers for those using Gnarled's with magic charges).

I performed 50 swings with each weapon on a character with 100 str, 0 wrestle, all hits connected. The attacking character was only GM in tactics and the respected weapon skill. The Max, Min, and AVG damage listings are average of the hitpoints that the defender had left immediately after the strike. The Real Damage Average (RDA) is the average damage per hit. The Consistency (Con) is the total from subtracting the Max Damage from the Min Damage. This is really to see how broad of a range the weapon had. (Yes I understand the range scale is actually on a curve, eg. 5d10, but this serves my purpose just fine.)

I was particularly interested in how much damage I could "Realistically" expect each weapon to provide, The Con totals have proven helpful in my decisions. I have the data from each and every strike if anyone needs it, it's just that it would not fit in this thread.

Weapons in blue do not have a weapon cycle-refresh and are more or less in here for fun/knowledge. I was planning on doing every weapon in this manner, but I feel that I have gathered the data that I personally wanted.

I know some people are going to wonder where the Katana, Kryss, and Qstaff are. I was looking at primary weapons to use, and it's quite clear which secondary weapon you are going to use anyway, unless you have some bizzarre template with multiple weapons skills. (in which case kudos).

by Average Damage (high-low) wrote: H.Xbow - Max- 62 Min- 76 AVG- 67.8 RDA- 32.2 Con- 14
RegBow - Max- 72 Min- 83 AVG- 69.1 RDA- 30.9 Con- 11
Brdache - Max- 63 Min- 97 AVG- 78.1 RDA- 21.9 Con- 34
Halberd - Max- 71 Min- 91 AVG- 79.7 RDA- 20.3 Con- 20
S.spear - Max- 75 Min- 87 AVG- 79.9 RDA- 20.1 Con- 12
WarFork - Max- 70 Min- 94 AVG- 80.2 RDA- 19.8 Con- 24
W.Mace - Max- 77 Min- 83 AVG- 80.2 RDA- 19.8 Con- 6
W.Hamer - Max- 76 Min- 88 AVG- 80.7 RDA- 19.3 Con- 12
l.spear - Max- 72 Min- 91 AVG- 80.9 RDA- 19.1 Con- 19
V.Sword - Max- 72 Min- 90 AVG- 81.3 RDA- 18.7 Con- 18
EGStaff - Max- 78 Min- 86 AVG- 81.3 RDA- 18.7 Con- 8
G.Staff - Max- 82 Min- 89 AVG- 84.8 RDA- 15.2 Con- 7
P.Fork - Max- 85 Min- 94 AVG- 89.6 RDA- 10.4 Con- 9
Damage Consistency (high-low) wrote: Brdache - Max- 63 Min- 97 AVG- 78.1 RDA- 21.9 Con- 34
WarFork - Max- 70 Min- 94 AVG- 80.2 RDA- 19.8 Con- 24
Halberd - Max- 71 Min- 91 AVG- 79.7 RDA- 20.3 Con- 20
l.spear - Max- 72 Min- 91 AVG- 80.9 RDA- 19.1 Con- 19
V.Sword - Max- 72 Min- 90 AVG- 81.3 RDA- 18.7 Con- 18
H.Xbow - Max- 62 Min- 76 AVG- 67.8 RDA- 32.2 Con- 14
S.spear - Max- 75 Min- 87 AVG- 79.9 RDA- 20.1 Con- 12
W.Hamer - Max- 76 Min- 88 AVG- 80.7 RDA- 19.3 Con- 12
RegBow - Max- 72 Min- 83 AVG- 69.1 RDA- 30.9 Con- 11
P.Fork - Max- 85 Min- 94 AVG- 89.6 RDA- 10.4 Con- 9
EGStaff - Max- 78 Min- 86 AVG- 81.3 RDA- 18.7 Con- 8
G.Staff - Max- 82 Min- 89 AVG- 84.8 RDA- 15.2 Con- 7
W.Mace - Max- 77 Min- 83 AVG- 80.2 RDA- 19.8 Con- 6
Swords
From this information I have decided that the bardache is superior to the halberd in it's average damage, however it is not reliable damage.

Macing
This was surprising to me, the War Mace (1 handed) had a better average damage, as well as a narrower range. Plus you can freaking drink pots with it, how awesome is that.

Fencing
The Long spear sucks. The short spear is pretty good actually, and marginally consistent. The war fork put out a higher max damage, but also a lower minimum so it is sort of the "Short Spear's Bardache"

Of the few weapons that I selected for each weapon-type, I will be doing a further examination of speed at 25 stam, as well as the duration it takes to "cycle" each weapon.

Disclaimer: I have told you how I calculated this data, there are more effective/accurate ways to go about this, so be advised that this is just from my experience.

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Re: Best Tank Mage Weapon in-game test.

Post by Lazarus »

Wow. Thanks for all your hard work. Not sure if its beneficial for me but I appreciate your efforts and dedication to providing knowledge to all.

robz
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Re: Best Tank Mage Weapon in-game test.

Post by robz »

Thank you for your time in testing this.

kazana
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Re: Best Tank Mage Weapon in-game test.

Post by kazana »

It would be quite interesting to see this for damage over time instead of damage per hit.

But either way, very interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing.

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Re: Best Tank Mage Weapon in-game test.

Post by robz »

kazana wrote:It would be quite interesting to see this for damage over time instead of damage per hit.

But either way, very interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing.
Damage over time would be irrelevent here i think.
For a tank mage your usually just using your weapon for that extra damage with your burst of spells.
Also, DOT would be based on the person's dex/stamina as well.

Matron, would you be able to run this test with a dexxer w/ 100 anatomy as well.
Would be interesting to see the dmg increase with anatomy.

If you're up to it :D

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Re: Best Tank Mage Weapon in-game test.

Post by Mikel123 »

So, I've thought about doing this for a while.

Unfortunately, I have a couple critiques for your study.

First off, if you're concluding that the bardiche does more damage than the halberd, you can quickly see that there's an issue in either the programming of this shard, or with your sample size. My guess is the latter.

OR... you simply made one exceptional copy of each weapon and used that... which you can't do, because there are varying ranges of exceptional (search for "VDP"). Actually, I think you know this, because you posted on the thread about that. So if you indeed did ensure each exceptional weapon was the highest VDP for it's type, then I have to go back to sample size.

And again... assuming all of these weapons are programmed correctly... you can actually model this and get perfect data, based simply on the Weapons guide data (the die rolls, etc).

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Re: Best Tank Mage Weapon in-game test.

Post by Mikel123 »

Also, variance in damage is GOOD, in my opinion. I love weapons with high variance. Yeah it sucks when you get a few paltry hits in a row, or a paltry hit when a good one would have done in the bad guy... but for experienced fighters, most of them can handle consistent damage. It's the high-roll swings that end up doing them in because they're not as expected.

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Re: Best Tank Mage Weapon in-game test.

Post by archaicsubrosa77 »

On Matron's chart it is not stated the bardiche can do more damage then halbard, and it's just a hair faster which isn't really calculated here. There is already a chart that explains damage output range already with speeds.

It's the average that mattered and this seems to be very well true.
Derrick wrote:I wish it were possible that a mount could be whacked while you are riding it, but to the best of my knowedge it is not.

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Re: Best Tank Mage Weapon in-game test.

Post by Mikel123 »

Please PLEASE stop posting in threads like this. I'm sorry to be a jerk. I've tried to humor you, but you've spread more misinformation on this forum than probably every other poster combined. It's incredibly frustrating to try to correct you every time you're wrong about something. If you don't know something FOR CERTAIN, just don't say anything. Please.

As Matron said in the post, the statistics are from 50 swings. Swing speed has nothing to do with it. Time has nothing to do with it.

On his chart, it says for 50 swings, his halberd averaged 20.3 damage and his bardiche averaged 21.9 damage.

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Re: Best Tank Mage Weapon in-game test.

Post by archaicsubrosa77 »

archaicsubrosa77 wrote:On Matron's chart it is not stated the bardiche can do more damage then halbard, and it's just a hair faster which isn't really calculated here. There is already a chart that explains damage output range already with speeds
I didnt say it did ^. I was stating the fact it was about averages, a point you seemed to have missed.

See? Matron knows what she is doing, stop acting all superior.

And get some hemmerhoid cream for all the flaming.

As far as I can tell it has alot to due with the durability of the weapon.
Derrick wrote:I wish it were possible that a mount could be whacked while you are riding it, but to the best of my knowedge it is not.

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Re: Best Tank Mage Weapon in-game test.

Post by Mikel123 »

You're still incorrect.

His table shows average PER SWING. Not per unit of time. Which means, yes, his chart is stating that the bardiche does more damage, PER SWING, than the halberd.

And good grief... it has NOTHING to do with durability. 50 swings will have an imperceptibly small impact on the durability of the weapon. It will probably still arms lore as "unused" after 50 swings.

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Re: Best Tank Mage Weapon in-game test.

Post by archaicsubrosa77 »

We'll let Matron answer that.

My friend had done tests with his friends on the test server and after 12 swings the hally's potency seemed to have noticably (not drastically) dropped. The bardiche on the other hand has more HPs.

The testing here was probably done on the test server where the weapons were not crafted but spawned in a consistant manner.

It could have very well been some bad rolls too. Everything is chance...I think this was just trying to find the odds.
Derrick wrote:I wish it were possible that a mount could be whacked while you are riding it, but to the best of my knowedge it is not.

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Re: Best Tank Mage Weapon in-game test.

Post by Mikel123 »

HE DOESNT HAVE TO ANSWER IT, IT IS ALREADY WRITTEN IN HIS POST.

Hally's don't drop in effectiveness after 12 swings. I've already explained durability elsewhere, but in short... each drop in Arms Lore result corresponds to about a 5% reduction in damage. 12 swings will absolutely NOT drop a halberd a full level (5% damage) in arms lore. Even if it did, this would correspond to a 5% drop on 20 damage, which is 1 point of damage per swing. You cannot notice a drop of 1 damage point per swing unless you look at HUNDREDS of swings. Case in point, Matron's table above in which he documented 50 swings and found a bardiche hitting harder than a halberd, which is simply not the case.

Again... you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. You can believe what you want, and play the game however you want... but please stop spreading your misinformation here, to new players that are trying to learn how the game works. You're doing a disservice to them.

I agree, this was partly just trying to validate the odds. But my point is, 50 swings is clearly too little of a sample, if you're seeing a bardiche hit harder than a hally.

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Re: Best Tank Mage Weapon in-game test.

Post by archaicsubrosa77 »

I didn't give the numbers...argue with the one that did.
Make sure to drop the "misinformation" line in there when you do.
Derrick wrote:I wish it were possible that a mount could be whacked while you are riding it, but to the best of my knowedge it is not.

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Re: Best Tank Mage Weapon in-game test.

Post by archaicsubrosa77 »

It's like this you have ten full points between master and grandmaster in a skill. You have 10% of a weapons hit points between levels of wear. Which would be like from 90-99% of a weapons durability if it's in the first stage of use.

Do you see a difference between 90 magery and GM? Surely a couple points damage could be credited to even slight wear of a weapon and have some impact on damage output.

Being a hally has 80 hp (10%=8) and bardiche has 100 max(10%=10)...the effect of wear would impact the hally more then the bardiche over time.
Derrick wrote:I wish it were possible that a mount could be whacked while you are riding it, but to the best of my knowedge it is not.

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