PvP Inaccuracies

[Luca|Blight]

This is a lil' list of my pvp observations and what can be changed to make this shard's pvp even more true to what t2a was.

Attack Last: Currently you can spam an attack last macro and trigger your opponent to reinitiate combat even if they had tabbed out. This causes your opponent to "lose" their next weapon hit if they had unequipped weapon to cast a spell. Attack last existed during t2a and is even a built in macro in the UO macro list, BUT if you were to tab out, you would not be forced to swing again until the combat timer of 2 minutes passed, making attack last spam pretty much useless. This timer is the same timer used for going grey, or if you go in combat with someone and both parties just stand there for 2 minutes you will go out of combat and have to reattack.

Mini Heal: The amount healed seems correct and I think has been confirmed through multiple sources. However, there is no way no how you could mini heal spam through mage combos or even through a dxr attacking you. It's unreal how powerful this is here. There was definitely more of a delay between the casting of this spell otherwise it would have been just as abused on t2a, which i don't ever remember seeing, because it didnt exist.

Hally Swing Timer: To me this is the most obvious fault on the shard. AS IS with 25 DEX you can swing a halberd approximately every 5 seconds. From what I remember a hally was only slightly faster than a heavy xbow. AS IS a heavy xbow with 25 DEX fires approximately every 12 seconds. Seems a bit off to me. Halberds were almost exclusively used as combo FINISHERS during t2a for this reason, they were SLOW, but here you can time your hally hits to literally be your only source of melee damage. On t2a when mana was low you would duke it out with a katana, not run in circles with your hally timer. Maybe this is a RUN UO default or something, but it seems to define freeshard pvp (along with interrupts) and is quite lame.

Deadly Poison: I don't know WTF is up with poison here, but it's ridiculously inaccurate. If you happened to get DPed during a fight on t2a it would be something to seriously worry about because it was HARD to cure. I would say a GM mage had around a 50-75% chance of curing it, same with greater cure potions. So you would be spending 1-2 spells/potions while your opponent was still attacking you and the poison ticks were raping you, yeah it was definitely something to worry about. As of right now you can cure DP with a STORE BOUGHT POTION, I think common sense says something is wrong here. Not to mention the poison damage is overall extremely weak. Tinkers would love to make POISON traps over EXPLOSION traps because the poison was so brutal and would kill so quickly, I don't think I've ever seen a poison trap used here...

[nickhimself]

The only part of what you are saying that I agree with is the DP curing rate. I remember failing cures all of the time on poisons. There's no way a regular cure potion should be able to cure DP.

[Luca|Blight]

Some info I found on weapon timers from http://web.archive.org/web/199905022020 ... m/arms.htm

These stats are with 25 DEX

Heavy Xbow / fires every 12 seconds

Halberd / every 5 seconds

Katana / every 2.5 seconds


Now stratics had SPEED ratings for each weapon


Heavy Xbow / 13

Halberd / 25

Katana / 58


If the speed rating difference between a halberd and a heavy xbow is 25-13 = 12 (the attack time difference is 12 seconds - 5 seconds = 7 seconds)
The speed rating difference between a katana and a halberd is 58-25 = 32 (the attack time difference is 5 seconds - 2.5 seconds = 2.5 seconds)

Now how can the speed difference between hally/xbow be only 12 yet theres a 7 second difference in the time it takes to attack with the weapon, yet the speed difference between the katana/hally is 32 with only a 2.5 second difference in attack time. Wouldn't one think the bigger the difference in speed rating the longer the attack time difference would be?

[Caswallon]

So you missed the whole katana is 48 not 58 thing huh? Good point thou.

EDIT: Fixed your link for you too http://web.archive.org/web/199905022020 ... m/arms.htm

[Luca|Blight]

So you missed the whole katana is 48 not 58 thing huh? Good point thou.

EDIT: Fixed your link for you too http://web.archive.org/web/199905022020 ... m/arms.htm

Thanks Caswallon I edited mine too with the right one.

If a katana is 48 than that makes an even stronger argument because it would be 22 speed difference vs. the 12 speed difference of the hally/xbow yet the time difference between swings has a huge difference 7 seconds vs. 2.5 seconds!

[dexter4321]

Which use to be faster kryss or katana? I'm not all to familiar with the technical mechanics.

Yeah I hear what your saying about the DP. I use to have poisoning on my pvp chars but I dropped it because it seemed like a waste. Waste of items in my bag for the poison pots, and waste of time for gaining the skill. All it ever did was just distract someone or hope they run out of cure pots I guess. I found better use with hiding and magery than I did with poisoning to be honest.

[Luca|Blight]

Which use to be faster kryss or katana? I'm not all to familiar with the technical mechanics.

Kryss was always a lil faster than the katana but did less damage. Currently on this shard I think the kryss is faster AND does more damage than a katana. The katana was nerfed so badly that I switched swords for fencing on my dxr.

[dexter4321]

Which use to be faster kryss or katana? I'm not all to familiar with the technical mechanics.

Kryss was always a lil faster than the katana but did less damage. Currently on this shard I think the kryss is faster AND does more damage than a katana. The katana was nerfed so badly that I switched swords for fencing on my dxr.

Yeah I wanted to do swords but I remember when I use to roll with Sir Rellik he used katanas all the time then they changed speed he said a broadsword was just about faster than a katana.

[Mikel123]

Most of this has been hashed out before. If you have something different to add, by all means do it.

But regarding mini-heal, the evidence (as I saw it) showed about a 90% chance it was 11-16 (at GM), a 9% chance it was 11-14, and a 1% chance it was something less. I think it was mostly whining that made staff decide to make it 11-14.

Regarding poison, I too remember it being stronger during UO:R. But there is a ton of sources talking about how easy it was to cure with GCures, magery, etc.

As for the swing timer with Halberd and Heavy Xbow... the formula is here:
http://www.uosecondage.com/stratics/combat.html

Looks like 12 seconds is precisely correct.

I, too, fail to remember people refreshing their halberds to finish duels or to regain mana. But, maybe they didn't know how.

In the arguments about it, there was one big UO Update that said something like "It is no longer possible to arm/disarm to speed up weapon timers". This was Feb 1999, outside our era. In and of itself, this would tell me that this was when the bug was fixed. But, there were some other random quotes, plus some interesting screenshots, that made it look like someone could hally hit, cast a level 6 spell, then hally hit again immediately. I dunno. Personally, my hunch is that this bug was fixed via that patch note in Feb 1999, but it's like a 60/40 feeling.

[dexter4321]

Almost impossible to kill someone if they running around spamming mini-heal. I mean at least with greater heal you have a chance to disrupt it, but no matter what can't disrupt mini-heal. Take vanette for example, all he does is spam mini-heal and tab out. Now how in the hell am I suppose to kill him when hes messin up my swing timers every second and spamming mini-heal that everytime I get him 10% or lower he's back at 50% within like five seconds.

[johttenn]

Which use to be faster kryss or katana? I'm not all to familiar with the technical mechanics.

Kryss was always a lil faster than the katana but did less damage. Currently on this shard I think the kryss is faster AND does more damage than a katana. The katana was nerfed so badly that I switched swords for fencing on my dxr.

If I remember correctly, and I may not, so stand to be corrected. Then, the only correct things about the o.p. are the above--referring to the Katana nerfing--and the d.p. damage and curing rates. By god it used to be hard, and now I load up with cures from npc alchemists.

[Hemperor]

> If you die by poison (even if It's deadly poison) then I gotta say your not
> very smart.....It's fairly easy to cure 5th level poisons. With a single
> greater cure potion, a healing skill higher than 60, or with MAGERY simply
> casting cure.


Brandy is talking about the poison beyond deadly. A friend
poison-trapped a box and then set it off to test it. He blew through a
dozen or so gcures and still died. He later tried it with my gm mage
casting cure on him, and I couldn't cure him (gm in all the mage skills,
100 int, etc.). My mage can cure deadly poison with one cure spell.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... +online%22

Being forced back into combat regardless of if you tabbed before is displayed in the demo, OSI and many newsgroup postings which I don't feel warrant my time to look up.

As always, finding that post above was a simple quick check. Argue the demo all you want, newsgroup postings are pretty solid. This, of course, being only one of many.

[Luca|Blight]

Most of this has been hashed out before. If you have something different to add, by all means do it.

But regarding mini-heal, the evidence (as I saw it) showed about a 90% chance it was 11-16 (at GM), a 9% chance it was 11-14, and a 1% chance it was something less. I think it was mostly whining that made staff decide to make it 11-14.

Regarding poison, I too remember it being stronger during UO:R. But there is a ton of sources talking about how easy it was to cure with GCures, magery, etc.

As for the swing timer with Halberd and Heavy Xbow... the formula is here:
http://www.uosecondage.com/stratics/combat.html

Looks like 12 seconds is precisely correct.

I, too, fail to remember people refreshing their halberds to finish duels or to regain mana. But, maybe they didn't know how.

In the arguments about it, there was one big UO Update that said something like "It is no longer possible to arm/disarm to speed up weapon timers". This was Feb 1999, outside our era. In and of itself, this would tell me that this was when the bug was fixed. But, there were some other random quotes, plus some interesting screenshots, that made it look like someone could hally hit, cast a level 6 spell, then hally hit again immediately. I dunno. Personally, my hunch is that this bug was fixed via that patch note in Feb 1999, but it's like a 60/40 feeling.

Just adding what I remember is all. I played during all of T2A and about half of UOR and I only played one freeshard (Divinity) so I know what I remember is from t2a. I don't understand why something that was written on the internet 10 years ago has more value than what actual players remember happened. That's like sourcing the National Enquirer in all honesty which is pretty lame when there's actual players that remember how this stuff worked. Just dissapointed how lame the PvP can be here (mostly the 1v1 pvp) when it was so much more fun during t2a. There's a bunch of stuff that is definitely accurate, but a lot of stuff that's just plain wrong.

As for the mini heal I said the amount healed is definitely right, but the ability to spam it so quickly is wrong. This would have been common practice if it existed during t2a, and it never happened, so I it's pretty obvious it wasn't that way. And saying "people didn't know how" doesn't work cause people figured out the most obscure, insane ways to hack, cheat, and do ridiculous things during this area, someone would have definitely "figured it out" if that's the way it was.

[Luca|Blight]

> If you die by poison (even if It's deadly poison) then I gotta say your not
> very smart.....It's fairly easy to cure 5th level poisons. With a single
> greater cure potion, a healing skill higher than 60, or with MAGERY simply
> casting cure.


Brandy is talking about the poison beyond deadly. A friend
poison-trapped a box and then set it off to test it. He blew through a
dozen or so gcures and still died. He later tried it with my gm mage
casting cure on him, and I couldn't cure him (gm in all the mage skills,
100 int, etc.). My mage can cure deadly poison with one cure spell.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... +online%22

Being forced back into combat regardless of if you tabbed before is displayed in the demo, OSI and many newsgroup postings which I don't feel warrant my time to look up.

As always, finding that post above was a simple quick check. Argue the demo all you want, newsgroup postings are pretty solid. This, of course, being only one of many.

Although I still remember tabbing out and not being able to be forced back into combat, I'll give a counter argument to my own argument. This MIGHT be directly related to the hally swing time, which I'm referring to people using hallys as finishers, not constant melee damage, which would pretty much negate having to spam attack last anyway, but even so you would have been able to ruin the hally as a finisher every. single. time. if you were able to spam attack last. And considering the most common combo in t2a was exp eb hally, there's no way this could be.

When was this "holy UO demo" released btw? And how is a "demo" which in definition means "not representative of the real game" such an absolute source of info.

[Eulogy]

Yeah, I remember fastcasting mini heal..