Bring back the 'All KIll" command!!!!

[arteleis]

Bring back all kill - when I first started playing the second age I think in 97-98? They had all kill.
I remember being a newbie player and training packs of wolves to sick on unsuspecting travellers. It was a much more dangerous road back then because of this command.
Granted it would make seemingly immortal characters . who would have legions of drakes and wyrms
But it is the way it was.
What's everyone else think?

[GuardianKnight]

I think you could get screenshots, a old developer, patch notes, god's word, and a psychic to prove that it was working in t2a and they would still tell you no. Mob rules here and a powerful tamer is a threat to all the pks here. All it takes to get something powerful changed here is for people to whine about it for a few weeks.... Well except for bandages.

[Hemperor]

I think you could get screenshots, a old developer, patch notes, god's word, and a psychic to prove that it was working in t2a and they would still tell you no. Mob rules here and a powerful tamer is a threat to all the pks here. All it takes to get something powerful changed here is for people to whine about it for a few weeks.... Well except for bandages.

Unfortunately you don't have a single:
screenshot
old developer
patch note
god's word
or psychic to back up any of your claims.

Please exaggerate less. The function of the "all" prefix here was probably one of the most definitive changes.

[GuardianKnight]

Shoosh pinfold

[nightmare]

When they first changed it because of some side note domeone found there were a bunch of us protesting the all kill change. I started in 97 and I had a tamer and all kill is all I had to say. I never had to put my dragons on all guard me so that I had a chance to get away from pks. I took it to pks and they were the ones running. I have yet to kill a pk on this server with my tamer. This is clearly a pk server and what they want they get . I wounder when they are going to make to where I cant gate my dragons out in a fight. As I know I am making these reds mad that I have such a good escape strategy . 162 and 1 so far while farming. Just wish I could stay and fight them like I used to!!!

[Mikel123]

Look... yes this server caters to PKs. Mini-heal is nerfed. Wyrm speed is nerfed, in my opinion. Dragons don't seem to be attacking murderers like they should. Pets out of the stable are uncommanded, even though it was unanimously agreed in a discussion that they would obey their last command before being stabled. Dragon spellcasting is horribly nerfed (my guess is their magery is too low upon spawning).

All of these mechanics seem to fly in the face of the evidence, and in each case you could argue it favors most PKs here.

But, these are the ONLY issues I can think of that fly in the face of the majority of evidence about them. In every other discussion about accuracy, I think I agree with the staff decision that was made with the evidence given.

I was an adamant proponent that "all kill" worked in T2A. But, like most people here, I played well into UO:R, when we ALL agree it worked. And given the evidence presented, I agree that it appears it did not work in T2A. It would command the closest pet only. So if you had one pet, it would "work" just fine. But for 5 dragons, or 3 timber wolves, or 2 nightmares, it would not command all of them at once.

I would love it if this was a feature in our shard, but I agree that given the evidence, it should not be.

[Hemperor]

Look... yes this server caters to PKs. Mini-heal is nerfed. Wyrm speed is nerfed, in my opinion. Dragons don't seem to be attacking murderers like they should. Pets out of the stable are uncommanded, even though it was unanimously agreed in a discussion that they would obey their last command before being stabled. Dragon spellcasting is horribly nerfed (my guess is their magery is too low upon spawning).

All of these mechanics seem to fly in the face of the evidence, and in each case you could argue it favors most PKs here.

But, these are the ONLY issues I can think of that fly in the face of the majority of evidence about them. In every other discussion about accuracy, I think I agree with the staff decision that was made with the evidence given.

I was an adamant proponent that "all kill" worked in T2A. But, like most people here, I played well into UO:R, when we ALL agree it worked. And given the evidence presented, I agree that it appears it did not work in T2A. It would command the closest pet only. So if you had one pet, it would "work" just fine. But for 5 dragons, or 3 timber wolves, or 2 nightmares, it would not command all of them at once.

I would love it if this was a feature in our shard, but I agree that given the evidence, it should not be.

All kill didn't work in UO:R.

Dragon stats match up with Stratics and Demo.

All prefix wasn't introduced until 98. No targetable command was in the patch notes with it, they did not function properly with it.

Mini heal is not nerfed, it does 10th of magery +1-4, although the demo does say +1-6. Not sure what the change is from but I certainly would not call that a nerf.

Wyrm speed is not nerfed, there are plenty of newsgroups posts to agree with this. To think that white wyrms would go as fast as a mounted player (todays mounted player) on a shard with majority on dialup is pretty ridiculous.

Everything being stated in this topic has been researched thoroughly and the topics it took place in are still available. Search for yourselves. The change to "ALL" took months to come in, Derrick was very careful about making sure everything was definite. I hate to knock memories, but when you have actual newsgroup posts and stratics pages from the era stating the exact opposite, it's hard to argue.

As I said to GK, people assume. There isn't a single thing to back up "all kill", you would think there would be at least ONE thing about it out of the 50000~ archived usenet posts (which contain just about everything) or stratics pages.

[nightmare]

Well I remember what I remember and I dont have the time or patience to go look it up so I have accepted it.
So I will just stick to what I have become accustom to and just be thankfull I get to play on a great FREE server. These guys do try very hard to keep things working well for us and even better for the pks . Anyways even though pks have the run of the game they cant stop those that are determand to figure out the best ways around them. I just feel for those that give up before they do as it is fun when you do get it figured out.

[Mikel123]

Alright, I'm not particularly in the mood to argue with you, but real quick:

You cite demo data on dragons as though it's gospel and then cite that we differ from the demo on mini-heal. Well, either the demo is gospel or it isn't. Don't know what to say. Clearly if something is suppposed to do 11-16 and it does 11-14 because people whined too much, yeah I'd call it a nerf. I'm not going to go over the 10 page thread about it and rehash the discussion, but in short it looks like evidence shows it doing 11-16 before and after T2A.

When did all kill start working, then? 2007?

I don't believe Stratics 1999 archives had magery data for dragons. Agree on the demo, but dragon stats don't match up with T2A. I've cited an article numerous times that said freshly spawned dragons could dispel (http://www.tamingarchive.com/faqs/pvp.php). This was from Oct 1999, I believe, since the article referenced the "upcoming" skill lock changes. In fact, the article said that to train the dragons, you'd create some level 8 summons for an hour or so and let them Dispel them, and after that time the dragons should be able to enter Wind. This is not something that could be someone's weak memory, like thinking they would firebreath for around 50 when it was really 40. This is saying, flat-out, that they could dispel when spawned and in an hour of training they would have 72 magery. Neither of these things are the case here. It's not even close - some freshly spawned dragons can't even cast level 4 spells!

Here, I have been hunting with the same two dragons for over two months. Neither of them cast any level 5 or 6 or 7 spells. Look, I love the demo and the demo data. I took the data files you're referring to and spent 4 hours dumping it into Excel to play with. It's awesome data. But in the case of dragons, whose magic has undergone some changes already (it almost appears in 1997 or 1998 they didn't have magic at all), it's not accurate to T2A.

Never said wyrms should race players on horses here. Not going to rehash that discussion. All I'm saying is, I disagree with the decision based on what I read.

[Mikel123]

Dragon stats match up with Stratics and Demo.

btw, here's the best part of your argument.

I'm pretty sure the Hunter's Guide on Stratics doesn't have dragon stats in their 1999 archive. and in the Feb 2000 archive, it says they can cast level 8 spells. Sooooo, not sure this is the best source of data, even if they did have it there.

And on the demo, dragons don't have magery. They don't spawn with any magery skill. They don't spawn with the script "spellai". And they don't spawn with a max spell level (spellCastersLevel). Look it up.

I'll say that again.

ON THE DEMO, DRAGONS DON'T HAVE MAGERY.

So given that dragons on UOSA spawn with magery, and they don't on the demo, that kind of makes your statement 100% lie, correct?

[Hemperor]

You're right on the dragon on the demo, I recalled the being where the info was taken from but I guess I was wrong, I suggest you search the topic to find the information.

Doing a simple ten second search brought this up:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... +online%22

The amount of documentation saying the exact same thing from the era (and UO:R) is astounding. Seriously, anyone who challenges this only needs to do a simple search and watch the evidence against it stack up.

No, most tamers have got used to the idea that not only does All kill not
work right, but can get you guardwhacked when you get to town.

All Kill should be even worse than it is. It's known that using "All Kill" would queue the command the next time you use a command. Like "a transfer" would then use all kill again and you would be guardwhacked. I believe it could be cleared simply by saying "all stop"

I could post a hundred different sources on the subject, it's really ridiculous to claim otherwise when there is zero backing it up at this point.

[Mikel123]

You're preaching to the choir about "all kill". The queueing stuff is interesting, I don't recall reading that and I'm not sure I buy it... but regardless, everyone knows "all kill" doesn't work here, so adding in the queuing bug if it's not in already probably wouldn't actually impact anyone.

You're right on the dragon on the demo, I recalled the being where the info was taken from but I guess I was wrong, I suggest you search the topic to find the information.

I *did* search the topic, that's where I found the Taming Archive link I posted above, that states dragons could cast Dispel and train their magery as fresh spawns.

How you can think that our shard is accurate in regards to dragon magery, when the very best dragon spawns are barely able to cast Lightning, is beyond me.

Here is my thinking on this; I actually think I have a very plausible explanation:

Second... with regards to magery and dispelling... I summoned 16 water elementals in front of a fresh-tamed dragon, a well-trained dragon, and a white wyrm.

The fresh dragon never cast a spell above fireball. Didn't cast lightning even once. He cast his spells very sparingly. Never got below 90% mana, according to Eval Int.

The trained dragon cast up to lightning. Likewise, cast slowly and never got below 90% mana.

The white wyrm cast his full arsenal. He seemed to be working fine, except he never dispelled.

In fact, across the three of them, the NEVER dispelled, even once.

My guess..., I believe dragons are spawning with a magery level far too low. If the above link is correct, they all should be able to dispel. In any case, nothing over fireball is pretty ridiculous. So I'm guessing they should be spawning with at least 51 magery, which I think is the min level needed to cast a level 6 spell. Gazers, in the demo, spawn with 500+1d150 magery, so between 50.1 and 65 magery. If dragons spawned in this range, over 90% of them would be able to dispel upon being spawned, and possibly 100% by the time they were tamed since they would have cast upon you quite a bit while you tamed them. It would also ensure they could not enter Wind (72 required) or cast flamestrike (65.1 required) upon spawning, but would be close enough and casting high enough level spells to gain to 72 magery with an hour of casting on summons (as the PvP article mentions).

[Pro]

You do realize you'd just be getting pkd' by TTstoner 24/7 if all kill worked. I hope you also realize that the playerbase would probably half in a day due to the overpowering of tamers.

[Downs]

pro speaks truth. remember onslaught and his 20 mares? u saw his name on screen and 9/10 times u were dead. all kill, although convenient, was bad.

[Pro]

I also don't really see the logic in you all thinking a template based entirely towards PvM should be able to compete (easily as well) with someone who has all of their skill points based in pvp skills and is probably carrying 60k (average) of loot.which is actually possible at the moment if you take a small amount of time to prepare yourself.


And my last point to consider is this; if you aren't as good as these people on a tank mage or a dexer why should you beat them on a tamer?