Equipping while casting

[Halbu]

This mechanic is awesome, thanks to this old thread hemp! I do remember this worked back around 1999, I was about 14 and used to think mages looked badass when equipping the hally during the casting animation(on foot of course, I hardly ever used mounts back then).

Equip-cast, precasting and combos is what mage pvp was all about back then!

[Faust]

Our position on equipping and casting comes from the fact that the demo clearly shows that you can cast a spell and then equip a weapon during the casting animation. This functionality was a direct result of the January 20, 1998 patch which added in the full casting delay. Between that time and the January 24, 2000 patch, there are no documented changes to spellcasting that are relevant to whether it is possible to equip a weapon during the casting animation or not. Of course, we do recognize that not all changes are adequately documented, and it is possible that a change went undocumented. However, we have not seen any direct evidence that suggests that such a change happened (the fact that people describe using pre-casting one way does not actually mean it was the only way to do so). Until we have compelling evidence showing us that it was not possible to equip while casting and to continue casting, we are forced to go with our best evidence, which is the demo.

There is documentation that equip casting was possible when precasting was reimplemented during UOR. The mechanic functioned in this manner until they applied a few changes that made it imposdible by interrupting a spell if equipping during the casting process. This can be interpretted in two ways.

1. The equip casting feature that existed in the demo persisted the entire time since the only thing that removed precasting was the removal of a spell target during the drag drop function in the code. This would clearly explain the reason that it was possible to do in UOR precasting reimplementation.

2. EA simply forgot to add that mechanic during reimplementation.

The evidence that it was possible is pretty strong in my opinion.

[Kaivan]

It's true that there are comments on the uopowergamers archive from 2001 talking about the various test center versions of pre-casting found during 2001. Here is the comment (look for the July 9, 2001 statement):

The next update to TX6 will have some changes to *precasting*

1] You will no longer be able to arm a weapon durring the delay period of the spell.
2] You will be able to arm a weapon after the delay period (when you have the spell target cursor).
3] Targeting the spell will auto unequip your weapon (if you have one in your hand)

Like I said Im not sure when but on the next publish to tx6 these changes will be active. Enjoy and feedback is always welcome


Adrick - Designer - Ultima Online
Origin Systems Inc.
EA.COM


Like you thought they were going to leave it the way it was? Ya think?

These changes certainly suggest that we are talking about the original system, and how there should be no expectations for them keeping that system. However we are less than certain about this, as this refers to a test center change, and the comment about it could refer directly to the implementation of pre-casting currently on test center and the fact that they weren't leaving that particular implementation in place. There are later comments that seem to corroborate this position.

[Faust]

The UO Powergamers article combined with the demo are very powerful pieces of evidence for this mechanic.

[Kaivan]

I wouldn't be so sure myself. Here's another comment from the next day on July 10th which describes their experience on test center with pre-casting. Note the bolded text:

The next day I decided to log onto test center and do some pking. I hooked up with a few guys from Oceana and one, who claimed to be that shards best pvper asked to duel me. Ok.. this is where it get's interesting. He was using the spear template and I was using a scribe/hiding template. Note that I didn't even change it to poisoning or healing just for practice. Well, after a quite lengthy duel with a UO:R mage template of hiding and scribe, I beat him. He never really even got me close because I kept moving, never letting that spear hit me. At this point he was upset and challenged me again and this time, wanted to use a bow to roxxor me. I took archery as my choice to make it even and for some odd reason couldn't get my precast to work. So.. after a duel that lasted 20 minutes and me firing a total of 6 arrows because I couldn't figure out that you have to equip at the same time as you cast with bows, he finally got me after a lengthy duel. Note: The method described is going to change as the precasting is going to be modified to how it was formerly. That is waiting for the targeting cursor to appear and then arming your weapon. In other words, precasting will be very simple to use.

If we look at the bolded text above, it is clear that at this point in time on test center, you were required to arm your bow during the casting animation, and could not do so after the casting animation (although we don't know exactly what happened when you tried). It also mentions that this would be changing to how it was "before", although we don't know what is meant by before in this context (prior TC patch? T2A?), but this does line up with the statement that was posted the day before. In fact, if we evaluate exactly what is being said in the update from the day before, we can see that the mechanics experienced line up exactly with what was being said:

1] You will no longer be able to arm a weapon durring the delay period of the spell.

This implies that you could arm a weapon during the delay period of the spell. This fits directly with what is said in the above experience, where it was necessary for him to equip the bow during the cast animation to properly pre-cast.

2] You will be able to arm a weapon after the delay period (when you have the spell target cursor).

This implies that you could not equip a weapon after the delay period was completed and properly pre-cast. This is also corroborated by the above description where he didn't successfully pre-cast doing it in this manner.

Of course, the point is that the patch note for test center does not provide proper support as a matching system to our pre-casting system that was later going to be changed. Our system allows you to equip during and after the casting delay, while their system only allowed you to equip during the casting delay. This is a pretty major difference, and is the reason that this statement isn't viewed as a shining example of OSI picking up where they left off with their old system and making changes to it.

[Robbbb]

I clearly remember pre-casting in the UOR era, since I owned the shard on GL...I also did, literally, over 8 hours of searching the google forums for precasting and the hally timer and there is no evidence to refute the current mechanics.

[a mexican]

I was just thinking how Hally Mages really need a boost and are under represented here in PvP. This would go a long way to fixing this.

[Guerrilla]

dang mexican, i don't know what you're smoking but you need to leave it alone. There are plenty of sword mages currently active on UOSA.

[Ulfrigg]

Funny that people remeber all those haly mages that wasnt the top dog class at all at this era

[a mexican]

dang mexican, i don't know what you're smoking but you need to leave it alone. There are plenty of sword mages currently active on UOSA.

My friend...that post was a very dry form of sarcasm, in that 90% of PvPers are Hally mages. Additionally it is hally mages, with of course no intention other than era accuracy (again sarcasm), that make threads like these. As though they really need additional support in the PvP department.

Lastly, when did UOpowergamers become any sort of legit website? My memory of that website was anything but "legit".

[MatronDeWinter]

Lastly, when did UOpowergamers become any sort of legit website? My memory of that website was anything but "legit".

I thought that was one of those "buy our ebook on how to make billions in UO!" things they sold on Ebay.


Also, hally mechanics are NOT era-accurate. The template needs a nerf in the "refresh the swing" department.

[Faust]

it is clear that at this point in time on test center, you were required to arm your bow during the casting animation

Leaves me to wonder why they would re-implement that feature if in fact it was phantom patched out sometime after the demo and before pre-casting was removed on January 2000.

We know that there were two distinct patches that would have wiped pre-casting out completely.

• January 2000:
  Equipping, lifting, dragging, etc... anything related to an item would eliminate a spell target cursor.
• April 2000:
  UOR publish that forcefully equipped a spellbook during the very initial stages of casting a spell. Removing a spellbook in between the initial stage and the final stage of actually casting/targeting the spell would interrupt the spell entirely.

This leaves us to this particular portion of the description...

you were required to arm your bow during the casting animation, and could not do so after the casting animation (although we don't know exactly what happened when you tried).

We don't know what would happen if you tried as you mentioned. However, there is very little room for guessing outside of preventing you from precasting. Both pre-casting features that would have wiped the ability to pre-cast out completely would make equip casting in the new version of pre-casting just as useless.

We also know that the new version of precasting added features that did not exist in the original version. IE: auto unequipping upon targetting a spell when precasting. This could easily fall into the same category for the addition of the removal of equip casting.

I personally don't remember the ability to equip cast in '99 despite being an avid supporter of the feature due to the evidence that suggests otherwise. This is a personal conflict on my part because I have said many times that I distinctly remember that very annoying equip delay when using UO Extreme. There was a quirky feature that delayed the weapon showing up in your hand by around a second with UOE, and my memory on the issue was that it had to be timed right to equip it in a timely manner after casting or waste your swing. I recall interrupting my casting process by doing it to early because of that very annoying delay.

Good reason why memory is ignored in most cases here.

The evidence that we currently have suggests that you could most certainly equip cast but there is obviously no 100% certainty on ths subject how ever unfortunate that may be.

[hectorc2w]

i have a question..

since everyone seems to know that the current hally cycling/timer is wrong, why is it not changed to the way it was before? It would just make pvp better while we try to find how it exactly worked.

[MatronDeWinter]

i have a question..

since everyone seems to know that the current hally cycling/timer is wrong, why is it not changed to the way it was before? It would just make pvp better while we try to find how it exactly worked.

A few years ago there were MANY drastic changes to the pvp system. Well, who am I kidding, these changes were almost exclusively to Hally-mage style pvp. Anyway, there was much whining each time a patch went in, as it was proved inaccurate or "just didn't feel right". So, rather than make all of these changes and upset the neon-sporting unbathed masses, I think they just leave it how it is until some proof or something becomes visible.

It was probably left on THIS particular (2.5 second hallys....seriously) version because everyone enjoys this Free-server style pvp.

/But that is just like, my opinion man.

[Faust]

It was probably left on THIS particular (2.5 second hallys....seriously) version because everyone enjoys this Free-server style pvp.

Are we going to go down this route again?

Once more.. if there was no way to reduce the standard tank mage 5 second hally timer... how would it be possible to perform the infamous explosion, ebolt, and hally combo? We know without the slightest bit of doubt that the equip delay persisted from 1997 til this very day.

Facts
Sixth Circle Casting Delay: 7 ticks (1.75 seconds)
Explosion Damage Delay: 12 ticks ( 3.0 seconds)
Energy Bolt Damage Delay: 4 ticks ( 1.0 seconds)
Halberd Delay Standard Tank Mage: 20 ticks (5.0 seconds)

Would you please give us a logical explanation on how you can successful land an explosion/ebolt/hally combo relatively close together when equipping that hally at the end of the combo resets your swing counter to 0(the entire delay)?

Casting & releasing an explosion would be your starting point leaving you 3 seconds to cast an ebolt with a one second damage delay AND land your hally blow close to the end of the explosion spell's damage delay.

This would be physically impossible unless a hally delay could be circumvented through some means(most likely utilizing the wrestling delay). We know the tactic had to of existed in some shape or form. What is not right in my opinion is the current combat timer and the way it reproduces the mechanic. Using the proper combat timer would make it a bit more difficult to pull off and stretch the period from one cycle to the next apart to some degree.

The current combat timer allows a standard tank mage to cycle every 2 seconds and that is wrong.