Discussion: Limiting Razor for era accuracy

[Orsi]

If I had to do all this by hand, I wouldn't be playing, and I think thats the way it is for alot of oldschoolers. They don't want to invest hundreds of hours doing skills manually on a freeshard that (no offense to Derrick, he's done a great job) could go down permanently at any time.

First off, you aren't playing Ultima Online. All you are doing is is just fast forwarding to the end of the game.

Second off, all the oldschoolers who are here have established their characters and can enjoy their end-game whether or not this gets implemented; they won't be driven off because they can't powergame more characters to max.

Thirdly, this shard isn't shutting down anytime soon, it's been around for over 2 years. Furthermore, your 'invested' time is irrelevant. If you had fun, you had fun.

Now that we have a solid, established playerbase new players that have to build their characters the era accurate way won't feel as though they are alone, and will actually have people around them while they progress. If it were a completely new shard with an unsure population then I could see someone not wanting to 'invest' there time in case the others didn't stick around. We don't have that problem anymore, we have the playerbase already and there are people visibly playing everywhere pretty much.

The main problem people have with building new characters so slowly is that there is nobody at there skill level out in the field. This is because it is easy enough to get maxed out in the matter of a day, if you have a friend supply you, or a couple if you need to do it yourself. You state this explicitly in another thread:

I can tell you right now whats going to happen. You won't stop PKing. Instead of using 7x mages, they'll do what I did. Work a character to 100 wep skill, tacs, anat which is quick and easy, and run around with a vanq and 2 healers/gaters. If it dies in heavy stat delete and do over since it takes little time.

This is only possible because of features allowed in Razor, which we are debating, and the use of EasyUO or other similar macroing programs.

The suggestions to limit certain features in Razor are to make the game, that is the the whole journey from point A (a new character) to point B (Grandmaster Whatever), more enjoyable. You will not be affected having already built a character. Those who would be joining, the ones who would experience this the most, will stick around because they see there are players who are established; who will help them; who are not going to simply quit randomly and during that period from point A to B (the game) they will more likely be out on the field because they are in a guild; have a friend; it's more interesting than macroing. They will be the ones who get to play the game, not us who macroed through the entire thing. These people will have to play exactly like you described:

First character I made was a bard. Spent a few days macroing some skills and then scraped together enough gold avoiding PKs to buy a small house and some regs to start training Magery. Rotated spots to avoid ghosts, always ready to recall etc. Reminded me of old times, and it was fun. It wasn't that easy. Eventually I earned enough cash to finish my mage to 6x with upper 90s resist.

[Duke Jones]

So, am I in the minority thinking that it's wrong to "exempt" yourself from working at skills simply because:

A) You "dont have time" to play UO enough to naturally gain skill.

B) You already have a 6-7X GM on this or a production server, and feel entitled to not to have to do it again.

C) Just don't feel like working for it.

[Tron]

So, am I in the minority thinking that it's wrong to "exempt" yourself from working at skills simply because:

A) You "dont have time" to play UO enough to naturally gain skill.

C) Just don't feel like working for it.

On a t2a server, with those reasons as your reasons, you probably are a minority.

Most t2a vets are in their 20's (we had a poll here awhile ago, like 70% was 2x). So we have school, and or work. If I had time to play a game that required all my time to enjoy, I'd play Darkfall.

I'd say it's the minority of players who want to "work" while they play a video game also. Especially on a t2a free shard.

[Neoptolemos]

First off, you aren't playing Ultima Online. All you are doing is is just fast forwarding to the end of the game.

Actually yes I am. UO's greatest appeal was the open endedness in which you could approach the game world any way you please. I don't play to play YOUR way, I play to play MINE.

Second off, all the oldschoolers who are here have established their characters and can enjoy their end-game whether or not this gets implemented; they won't be driven off because they can't powergame more characters to max.

But people I've tried to give this shard a chance won't.

Thirdly, this shard isn't shutting down anytime soon, it's been around for over 2 years.

Pure conjecture. Derrick's server could be struck by lightning tomorrow for all you know. You cannot predict the future or its changes.

The suggestions to limit certain features in Razor are to make the game, that is the the whole journey from point A (a new character) to point B (Grandmaster Whatever), more enjoyable.

Purely subjective. You cannot know what people find enjoyable or what journey they want to experience. UO's greatest asset is freedom of choice.

First character I made was a bard. Spent a few days macroing some skills and then scraped together enough gold avoiding PKs to buy a small house and some regs to start training Magery. Rotated spots to avoid ghosts, always ready to recall etc. Reminded me of old times, and it was fun. It wasn't that easy. Eventually I earned enough cash to finish my mage to 6x with upper 90s resist.

No one has to play like I did. They're free to do what they want. I chose the best path of advancement to get to the point where I enjoy the game.

[Derrick]

It should be noted that we have 2 hour off-site backups in two states. A lightning strike is not going to take this shard down

Also, EUO was mentioned above, the only third party utility that interfaces with the game itself are Razor and UOAutomap, and other client connectors that are widely known and do not provide gameplay functionality.

The use of other apps is highly prohibited and may result in an immediate ban.

[Neoptolemos]

A lightning strike is not going to take this shard down

You could also wake up tomorrow with an epiphany and decide that all along your lifelong dream has been to live the life of a carney, handing out cotton candy to children and managing ring toss games, never to be seen again!

We never truly know.

[Duke Jones]

I'm glad that "The use of other apps is highly prohibited and may result in an immediate ban."

But seriously, with Razor, do you really NEED any other apps? I mean i'm sure there are a few out there that might do some really interesting things, but Razor, if in competent enough hands, could/will erode this game and its playerbase.

[Tron]

I'm glad that "The use of other apps is highly prohibited and may result in an immediate ban."

But seriously, with Razor, do you really NEED any other apps? I mean i'm sure there are a few out there that might do some really interesting things, but Razor, if in competent enough hands, could/will erode this game and its playerbase.

You give razor to much credit.

It is not nearly as powerful as EUO, which runs full scripts. Something you cannot even come close to doing on razor.

[Orsi]

Actually yes I am. UO's greatest appeal was the open endedness in which you could approach the game world any way you please. I don't play to play YOUR way, I play to play MINE.

Yes, it is open-ended, but unfortunately with the current way Razor works everyone can take the highway to the end-game: that is, the point where your character is fully developed. You play and enjoy the end-game aspect of UO, you will be able to do that regardless, you are already there. Razor obliterates the mid-game of UO because those who don't use it are surpassed by their peers and left all alone to themselves, thus creating the mid-game deserted and leaving only the option to do the same as the others. This isn't about the way I play the game, it's about making UO more than just the way you play the game and more enjoyable for a everyone. Expanding the parts of the game people can find enjoyable is better.

Second off, all the oldschoolers who are here have established their characters and can enjoy their end-game whether or not this gets implemented; they won't be driven off because they can't powergame more characters to max.

But people I've tried to give this shard a chance won't.

If their motivation to play UO is based soley off how fast they can macro a character, then they won't give it a chance. But if they were motivated by how diverse and active the community is, having a setting almost to that of T2A, or by knowing that they can go out at any point during their progress and still have fun, than they would still join. Plus, if they are your friends and were serious about actually getting in UO than you could help them progress considerably fast even without the aid of Razor.

The suggestions to limit certain features in Razor are to make the game, that is the the whole journey from point A (a new character) to point B (Grandmaster Whatever), more enjoyable.

Purely subjective. You cannot know what people find enjoyable or what journey they want to experience. UO's greatest asset is freedom of choice.

Sure, everything anyone ever does is subjective. I believe these suggestions would make the game more enjoyable outside the end-game portion of it. This would lead to better long-term plans for the shard by: creating a wider skill level in the world; which would make more people play outside the common mindset of macroing to the finish; which would further serve to encourage and keep new players joining.

[Derrick]

You could also wake up tomorrow with an epiphany and decide that all along your lifelong dream has been to live the life of a carney, handing out cotton candy to children and managing ring toss games, never to be seen again!

We never truly know.

Agreed. Much more likely than the lightning strike though, Just sayin..

UO is different things to different people, and a healthy shard requires a diverse community, therefore threads like this and the client connection thread(s), and the number of accounts thread(s) are bound to be met with much hostility.

Practicality is going to be a large factor in these rules. I do not intend for staff on UOSA to make rules that cannot be enforced, or that make more work for us than we can possibly handle. It's my opinion that forbidding Razor falls less within era-accuracy than allowing it does.

I have a lot of respect for the passion on both sides of this argument. You guys have the spirits of warriors when it comes to the defense of the concepts presented, and I could agree with either sides on any given day, because UO is many things to people both sides are right. UO by it's nature, and in the era we are emulating lacks restrictiveness and encourages creativity, something that i don't belive is found in any other game today.

Restricting Razor will prohibit connecting without it, and as I've stated in this and other threads, I don't belive that tying ourselves to Razor is a good idea. I do also belive that there is a good case for the taking away Razor features to be an encouragement to work around that restriction, as is what happened in era when looping was removed from UOA.

I am very apprehensive about making any changes.

[Neoptolemos]

Razor obliterates the mid-game of UO because those who don't use it are surpassed by their peers and left all alone to themselves, thus creating the mid-game deserted and leaving only the option to do the same as the others. This isn't about the way I play the game, it's about making UO more than just the way you play the game and more enjoyable for a everyone. Expanding the parts of the game people can find enjoyable is better.

So your idea to fix people's mid game boredom is to slow me down and force me to play with them? A part of me just died inside at that suggestion. Sounds like Everquest where you couldn't do anything without a group.

I am very apprehensive about making any changes.

I don't have 3 accounts, I do use a second to do stuff like ghost and macro healing. I don't see a problem with this and I'm all for player freedom of choice (which is why I've never found anything that compares to UO).

The argument I see in relation to Razor and using so many accounts is unattended farming and destruction of the economy, which is already illegal.

Wouldn't it be logical to just ask for a few volunteers to find these people so they can dealt with, instead of blanketing the shard with such a vast change?

[Derrick]

Wouldn't it be logical to just ask for a few volunteers to find these people so they can dealt with, instead of blanketing the shard with such a vast change?

This honestly isn't a problem.

It's often used as a battle cry, but there just aren't people out there AFK harvesting 24x7. When we find them we take everything they have, restoring the economy issue substancially. But as has been stated time and time again in thread after thread, unattended mining, lumber jacking, fishing, etc is a very rare exception.

[Neoptolemos]

Wouldn't it be logical to just ask for a few volunteers to find these people so they can dealt with, instead of blanketing the shard with such a vast change?

This honestly isn't a problem.

If its not a problem then I don't really understand what the argument is about. That seems the only good reason to start messing with Razor's functions.

[Orsi]

Wouldn't it be logical to just ask for a few volunteers to find these people so they can dealt with, instead of blanketing the shard with such a vast change?

This honestly isn't a problem.

If its not a problem then I don't really understand what the argument is about. That seems the only good reason to start messing with Razor's functions.

Re-read the entire thread and you might find the reasons.

[Akanigit]

I would be in favor of limiting razor to act like UO-Assist for era accuracy. Sure it's nice to run off to school and do other things while I leave my bard gaining skill. I can say it's a little exciting, getting home to check and see if I am still alive or did I GM. The downside to this is that it's too easy to gain skill and by allowing macroing to such an extent it lowers the value of the skill which lowers the value of everything else in the game. In my opinion, this issue goes hand in hand with the multiple account issue. Regardless of what people say it's a huge impact on the feel of the server and era accuracy. I would be in favor of making unattended macroing illegal like on osi, it would be fantastic because it would make the character that I worked so hard to raise the skill worth so much more to me then some throw away jumble of pixels that I macroed overnight. I will also venture to say that it would lower the population of the server, but there is also a chance that it would greatly enhance the quality of the player base which in my opinion is more important.