The Definition of Unattended Resource Gathering

[venox]

check the link in my sig for the price gm smithed items use to sell for on this server
in fact they use to cost a bit more than that also.

[pm_lamont]

This started as a simple vote. The reason why it is not a simple vote is because the person who started the vote chides and critiques every single vote. If the person in question would choose not to chide, the voting may continue, and this thread may be less cluttered. Many of the points in this thread have been posted several times over, and several pages I had to trudge through chiding remarks to finally make a post.

That said, I would like to compliment RAAAAAAAR for is neutrality on the matter and his understanding of economics. It is plausible to believe in the idea of expensive ingots and armor being the norm of OSI shards. What is going on here is a simple case of what economists call "sticker shock." Large price differences between that which the forum typist is accustomed, and what actually exists in the game world. As it happens, the market may attain a blalance for both parties which have been discussed in this forum thread.
As gold is indeed in large supply, you must expect by nature of said supply that prices will go up as gold is no longer a rare commodity. There are several factors involved in this scenario. Firstly, the above stated. Secondly, there are a large number of ingots in supply. Thirdly, and most importantly, there are only very limited portions of the user population using armor. Fourthly, as macros exist, many smiths simply macro mine their own ingots. These factors combine to create this model.
A lack of demand for ingots by their numbers and indeed, in final product form, demand reduces their merit so as to make them unviable. Fret not though, because few use armor anyway. New players are the only factor which serve to keep prices low keeping this economy from spinning out of control with rapid infaltion and stagnation from item saturation due by and large from excessive skill sets per each player. Housing has served so far to keep gold supplies flowing away from the population. Once that is over, gold will invariably abound.
So, indeed once this happens, you will have worthless gold, and one may charge 20 gold per ingot without worry of its value. Why not, one will have 200 million anyway. Thus your problem is solved. No one will have to worry about ingot prices and amounts of ingots anymore. Equalibrium acheived!
My vote is "NO" on this issue because it will not solve the coming problems and it has no effect on the movement of monies away from players which is the only thing that will prevent economic collapse. On a shard that has mostly tank mages for fighters, it does not make any sense debate on such an issue. There is no demand for armor and Vlast will have a mountain of ingots sitting in his bank forever. I know I do.

[Eulogy]

Wow, I agree with Hemperor?
Vlast is a tool.

[Kefka]

I think it should be illegal to use a macro for resource gathering, whether afk or not.

Resource gathering with macros is the reason why everyone and their mother has a GM crafter.

[eniave]

Everyone on this shard is a powergamer, has fully build multiple 7xs and full crafters/gatherers. Who cares hemp.

Not everyone . Some of us play the way UO was intended, early UO that is. IMO the ones that macro resource gathering have or are trying to emulate the leveling games.

[Bakishwaka]

sorry if this point was made, i couldnt be asked to read the previous 7 pages.

i voted YES its wrong, but i do it because I can! wooo to tailoring on one account, mining on another, and farming destard on the 3rd. PHAT LOOTZ AND STEADY CASH TOGETHER!

it does fuck up the economy but really, OSI was praised in its day for creating a fairly realistic economic balance which is capable of emulating real world economies. ... have we learned nothing in the last hundred years? something ALWAYS fucks the economy! adapt to it and prosper, complain about it and fail!

[magecor]

I voted yes.... I've been here two months and made a couple of million and now feel cheap for it (I macro'd) I'm seriously considering starting fresh and doing it for real this time.... so that I have pride in my creations.

Here's a thought... Derrick. Would if be possible to create a second shard with a one account limit and no AFK macroing allowed? I wonder how large of a player base it would draw? I know I'd be one to jump to such a configuration in a heart beat. To be a real Smith again and have it MEAN that I slaved for hours for the right to have my GM Mark again. And Bowcrafting... the months spent to achieve GM in that.... Bring it on!!!!

[Wappness]

Since we are talking resources only here, do as the real world, do not refresh the materials as quick and make people work to find the raw materials. Only Derrick would know when the resourses would be replenshied. Just make it harder for the people to find the resourses. It seems funny we do not talk about the skill marcos because everyone wants to be able to fight and heal so they can PVP. Just cut the resourses down and the prices will go back up.

[Daolin]

Since we are talking resources only here, do as the real world, do not refresh the materials as quick and make people work to find the raw materials. Only Derrick would know when the resourses would be replenshied. Just make it harder for the people to find the resourses. It seems funny we do not talk about the skill marcos because everyone wants to be able to fight and heal so they can PVP. Just cut the resourses down and the prices will go back up.

This would not be an era accurate change!

[MatronDeWinter]

Since we are talking resources only here, do as the real world, do not refresh the materials as quick and make people work to find the raw materials. Only Derrick would know when the resourses would be replenshied. Just make it harder for the people to find the resourses. It seems funny we do not talk about the skill marcos because everyone wants to be able to fight and heal so they can PVP. Just cut the resourses down and the prices will go back up.

This would not be an era accurate change!

Actually Daolin, the economy of UO was based on a system of input and output. The creation of ingame items (spawn/ore/other) was originally based on the output into the "garbage collector". For instance, if you sold 100gp worth of bows, that 100gp would spawn add to the total resource pool which could be pulled from by mining/farming/begging or anything else that creates an item. It was entirely possible to mine a whole mountain out of ore, and not have it respawn, assuming the resource pool was low. I believe the spawning timer for resources would dramatically increase disproportionally to the amount of resource in the pool. This was the original plan to keep the economy maintained. It would be considered accurate to randomize the spawnrates of ore ect.. as it was variably adjusted by the server in real time during the Pre, and T2A era.

There is a really intresting article on the micro/macro economics of Ultima online that was posted by RAAAAAAAR (Dr. Dissaster) if you care to read it, who sadly I havent seen in a while.

/If you still play RAAAAAAR shoot me a pm!

[Zim]

I'd just like to say, I have yet to see other people strip mine. My buddy ((Smitty)) when we played GMed smithing in like 3 days including the mining. If you want to mine like crazy and be super effective, have 2 players mine and drop ore, and one other pick up and process. We would literally strip mine whole mountains and gate to the next one. No bot can be that effective, although it requires team work

[Draxus]

I voted yes.... I've been here two months and made a couple of million and now feel cheap for it (I macro'd) I'm seriously considering starting fresh and doing it for real this time.... so that I have pride in my creations.

Here's a thought... Derrick. Would if be possible to create a second shard with a one account limit and no AFK macroing allowed? I wonder how large of a player base it would draw? I know I'd be one to jump to such a configuration in a heart beat. To be a real Smith again and have it MEAN that I slaved for hours for the right to have my GM Mark again. And Bowcrafting... the months spent to achieve GM in that.... Bring it on!!!!

While having a second shard with a similar philosophy but tweaked ruleset would be cool and all.... it would most likely massively reduce the population here, which is the last thing we need.

[Mirage]

I don't care if you have 3 accounts running with 3 monitors. You aren't active on all 3 accounts at once, therefore you are AFK on them.

If you slam your keyboard, words are only going to spurt out on 1 of those UO clients.

You can argue all you want that you are not away from your keyboard, but that's not what "AFK" means in UO. I'm technically AFK now, as I type this, at my keyboard, while macroing in UO.

I agree.

[Ri']

I think this does a lot to damage an economy in the long run, and it has the potential to get a lot worse as the number of players begins to increase.

[Jynxy]

Typically on OSI servers if you couldn't respond to a GM when spoken to you were considered AFK. I would assume the same would go here. If I am macroing resources and a GM addresses me and I don't respond then I am sure they are gonna assume that I am AFK which is as it should be. I do know that they will bust people for AFK resource gathering because a friend of mine did get jailed for it. GM's can't be everywhere and monitor everyone 24/7. It may seem like they don't enforce the policy but I believe they will if they know about the problem.