A part of the game you say ??

[Ulfrigg]

No, you misunderstand my definitions, and my ultimate point. I absolutely meant mutually exclusive; they absolutely do not necessitate eachother, and in fact can almost not exist together any longer. The experience you speak of stopped existing over a decade ago, and it cannot be engineered to 'feel like it did in the day.' Thats a simple fact. The game was new back then, people were still exploring, most people weren't massive experts. 15 years later, all that left is the people who took the time to thoroughly learn the games mechanics -- necessitating by definition that its a harder core group of players. Not that the grief or experience is any worse than OSI, mind you, only that the players are VERY experienced here.

You do know back then more then 100k people played this gamed. Noone finding this bug is just unlikely. Its probebly like 99.99% chance it would be found.

It WAS found, and WAS known -- thats why theres posts talking about people exploiting it in-era, and why there were patches eventually -- well past our era. Just because it wasn't widely known doesn't mean it wasn't known.

I hear you, that means the evidance for this mod being in havent been shown.
So we got a mechanicall bug in that probebly wasnt executable with that time mods.
If you cant make the transp bigger at era, then its impossible to kill people in big houses!!!

Mod? What mod? You modify the configuration file for the UO client. Its been doable since the day the game went gold, and probably in beta too. By default the GUI will only let you set it to 200, but there are no such limitations when editing the config file. It was possible to do, and was done, despite the fact that you think it wasn't.

Show me one tread talking about it

I know you can modify it your self but show me when your doing it and get the transp to reach center of a keep Tower or castle. Should be easy to post a non facked screen shot.

Also was it legal to do it at era if you can make it ?? Or would you get banned if caught!!!

[corruption42]

No, you misunderstand my definitions, and my ultimate point. I absolutely meant mutually exclusive; they absolutely do not necessitate eachother, and in fact can almost not exist together any longer. The experience you speak of stopped existing over a decade ago, and it cannot be engineered to 'feel like it did in the day.' Thats a simple fact. The game was new back then, people were still exploring, most people weren't massive experts. 15 years later, all that left is the people who took the time to thoroughly learn the games mechanics -- necessitating by definition that its a harder core group of players. Not that the grief or experience is any worse than OSI, mind you, only that the players are VERY experienced here.

You do know back then more then 100k people played this gamed. Noone finding this bug is just unlikely. Its probebly like 99.99% chance it would be found.

It WAS found, and WAS known -- thats why theres posts talking about people exploiting it in-era, and why there were patches eventually -- well past our era. Just because it wasn't widely known doesn't mean it wasn't known.

I hear you, that means the evidance for this mod being in havent been shown.
So we got a mechanicall bug in that probebly wasnt executable with that time mods.
If you cant make the transp bigger at era, then its impossible to kill people in big houses!!!

Mod? What mod? You modify the configuration file for the UO client. Its been doable since the day the game went gold, and probably in beta too. By default the GUI will only let you set it to 200, but there are no such limitations when editing the config file. It was possible to do, and was done, despite the fact that you think it wasn't.

Show me one tread talking about it

I know you can modify it your self but show me when your doing it and get the transp to reach center of a keep Tower or castle. Should be easy to post a non facked screen shot.

Also was it legal to do it at era if you can make it ?? Or would you get banned if caught!!!

Completely legal. The configuration file tells you how to modify this; it was known about from at least the initial pre-T2A release, and probably in the beta too. This was no secret, and was not illegal in any way.

Want a screenshot? Look up the one in the thread that started all this ruckus about LoS from Telamon a bit over a year ago. Plenty of screenshots there, I'm not going to make you one just because you aren't willing to go and test a painfully simple configuration change yourself.

One post discussing it? Well, I'll reiterate what Light Shade already posted in this thread:

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgr ... 5-false%5D

Simply put, regardless of whether you think it was or not, this was doable in era -- there's no debating that fact. Whether it was bannable or not is irrelevant; this shard does not aim to reproduce the social and policy goals of the era, only mechanical accuracy.

[Ulfrigg]

Are you serious about the link Light posted lol
Thats about house break ins!!

Also im not affected by this but i still say its a exploit...

And yes show me those screenshots pls that proves it was dooable and legal.

[Ulfrigg]

Simply put, regardless of whether you think it was or not, this was doable in era -- there's no debating that fact. Whether it was bannable or not is irrelevant; this shard does not aim to reproduce the social and policy goals of the era, only mechanical accuracy

This is wrong mate, exploits that damage the game isnt gona stay in just because its era.
If you dont Think they have beened the rules then look at GF sandals, cloth and masks.

[corruption42]

Are you serious about the link Light posted lol
Thats about house break ins!!

Also im not affected by this but i still say its a exploit...

And yes show me those screenshots pls that proves it was dooable and legal.

House breakins by -- here's the key word -- LINE OF SIGHT. These mechanics are one in the same; its the same mechanics that allow teleporting to things like the roof of Brit bank. Again, just because you don't believe it was true, doesn't make that truth. Again, I will not be giving you screenshots that can be found by searching, or made yourself by simply following through with the client modification.

Its really pretty simple -- by trying to argue this, you're wasting a lot of energy for something that not only will not be fixed as you desire, but is simply not the problem you think it is.

This is wrong mate, exploits that damage the game isnt gona stay in just because its era.
If you dont Think they have beened the rules then look at GF sandals, cloth and masks.

Stop the strawman arguments. GF Blessed items have nothing to do with LoS issues. This has been acknowledged to be accurate, and not a bug, by staff. What part of that can you not accept? THIS IS NOT GOING AWAY. LEARN TO LIVE WITH IT OR MOVE ON, ITS REALLY AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

Also, while gf blessed items have nothing to do with this conversation -- do you really think that the two are comparable? The gf blessed items, regardless of peoples opinions, created rare items within the game. This is how a HUGE number of actual rares in-era came into existence -- the stats, appearance, or properties of an item were altered which made the previous one no longer exist. They typically did not then remove the items; they simply became unique.

Also, stop expecting people to do the work of research for you. If you want to disprove something; disprove it by finding evidence that you're correct. Being handed evidence by others, then saying "I don't buy that evidence" is not a valid argument.

[NewToUOSA]

No, you misunderstand my definitions, and my ultimate point. I absolutely meant mutually exclusive; they absolutely do not necessitate eachother, and in fact can almost not exist together any longer...

If you're looking for reward with no risk, this isn't the environment for you; but you act like the only thing that thrives in such an environment is to be a douchebag and thats simply not true.

If you convince yourself your a victim of the environment of the game, you'll always feel victimized here -- but thats not the fault of anyone on the server, its the fault of someone who was clearly not prepared for the ramifications of such freedoms in the world.

We all came for the very mechanics you speak of, and none of us play PK's (or are really even into PvP, frankly). And I know we're far from the only ones. If you're unwilling to rough it to experience what this shard has to offer, thats not the fault of anyone on this shard but yourself.

Of course it is not mutually exclusive because they once existed mutually. You even added an "any longer" disclaimer as if that precludes it from being so. It does however fit with the rest of your hyperbolic post. I never said I wanted reward without risk and can't possibly see how objecting to an exploit could possibly be misconstrued as such. Your strawman position really didn't even address the issue at hand so I can only conclude you are grandstanding.

Read my subsequent posts and you'll hopefully understand my point. Just to be succinct, I say it's an exploit, you say it's the experience everyone is looking for... everyone has a right to an opinion.

[Ulfrigg]

Are you serious about the link Light posted lol
Thats about house break ins!!

Also im not affected by this but i still say its a exploit...

And yes show me those screenshots pls that proves it was dooable and legal.

House breakins by -- here's the key word -- LINE OF SIGHT. These mechanics are one in the same; its the same mechanics that allow teleporting to things like the roof of Brit bank. Again, just because you don't believe it was true, doesn't make that truth. Again, I will not be giving you screenshots that can be found by searching, or made yourself by simply following through with the client modification.

Its really pretty simple -- by trying to argue this, you're wasting a lot of energy for something that not only will not be fixed as you desire, but is simply not the problem you think it is.

This is wrong mate, exploits that damage the game isnt gona stay in just because its era.
If you dont Think they have beened the rules then look at GF sandals, cloth and masks.

Stop the strawman arguments. GF Blessed items have nothing to do with LoS issues. This has been acknowledged to be accurate, and not a bug, by staff. What part of that can you not accept? THIS IS NOT GOING AWAY. LEARN TO LIVE WITH IT OR MOVE ON, ITS REALLY AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

Also, while gf blessed items have nothing to do with this conversation -- do you really think that the two are comparable? The gf blessed items, regardless of peoples opinions, created rare items within the game. This is how a HUGE number of actual rares in-era came into existence -- the stats, appearance, or properties of an item were altered which made the previous one no longer exist. They typically did not then remove the items; they simply became unique.

Also, stop expecting people to do the work of research for you. If you want to disprove something; disprove it by finding evidence that you're correct. Being handed evidence by others, then saying "I don't buy that evidence" is not a valid argument.

Then why do Kaivaan disregard Sienter(Fede) showing that they are the same???
If so then house break Inns should be possible aswell....

Why should it be pick and choose if you cant do that with this exploit? Gf sandass cloth masks dint exist fyi, what did exist was gf houses....

Guess you werent playing back then.

Your the one that goot something to prove so why should i look for your evidence...


I got a pair of gf black sandals so when it gets changed i will loose aswell

[corruption42]

Are you serious about the link Light posted lol
Thats about house break ins!!

Also im not affected by this but i still say its a exploit...

And yes show me those screenshots pls that proves it was dooable and legal.

House breakins by -- here's the key word -- LINE OF SIGHT. These mechanics are one in the same; its the same mechanics that allow teleporting to things like the roof of Brit bank. Again, just because you don't believe it was true, doesn't make that truth. Again, I will not be giving you screenshots that can be found by searching, or made yourself by simply following through with the client modification.

Its really pretty simple -- by trying to argue this, you're wasting a lot of energy for something that not only will not be fixed as you desire, but is simply not the problem you think it is.

This is wrong mate, exploits that damage the game isnt gona stay in just because its era.
If you dont Think they have beened the rules then look at GF sandals, cloth and masks.

Stop the strawman arguments. GF Blessed items have nothing to do with LoS issues. This has been acknowledged to be accurate, and not a bug, by staff. What part of that can you not accept? THIS IS NOT GOING AWAY. LEARN TO LIVE WITH IT OR MOVE ON, ITS REALLY AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

Also, while gf blessed items have nothing to do with this conversation -- do you really think that the two are comparable? The gf blessed items, regardless of peoples opinions, created rare items within the game. This is how a HUGE number of actual rares in-era came into existence -- the stats, appearance, or properties of an item were altered which made the previous one no longer exist. They typically did not then remove the items; they simply became unique.

Also, stop expecting people to do the work of research for you. If you want to disprove something; disprove it by finding evidence that you're correct. Being handed evidence by others, then saying "I don't buy that evidence" is not a valid argument.

Then why do Kaivaan disregard Sienter(Fede) showing that they are the same???
If so then house break Inns should be possible aswell....

Why should it be pick and choose if you cant do that with this exploit? Gf sandass cloth masks dint exist fyi, what did exist was gf houses....

Guess you werent playing back then.

Your the one that goot something to prove so why should i look for your evidence...


I got a pair of gf black sandals so when it gets changed i will loose aswell

You are, simply put, incorrect. Scienter and Kaivan's conversation was unrelated, and Kaivan specified why they were not related. He asked for further evidence to prove that they were, and explained why they weren't.

I, and no one else, has anything to prove to you. A lack of evidence is not evidence in itself, and acting like it is makes you look foolish. If you want to disprove these things, THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU. You are making the accusations; you can't just choose to make an accusation and the ones targeted are suddenly burdened with proving to you beyond YOUR shadow of a doubt. The evidence has already been laid before you, and is plain as day -- but you choose to ignore it.

I played plenty back then; but regardless this is again another pointless strawman. My game time has nothing to do with my ability to ponder evidence placed in front of me; I recommend you bone up on doing the same.

You are still missing the point; gf'd items are not equivilant to LoS issues. They affect different mechanics, they are not related in the slightest in the code, therefore they are not related. Continuing to act like they are, as I stated before, just makes you look foolish and immature.

[corruption42]

No, you misunderstand my definitions, and my ultimate point. I absolutely meant mutually exclusive; they absolutely do not necessitate eachother, and in fact can almost not exist together any longer...

If you're looking for reward with no risk, this isn't the environment for you; but you act like the only thing that thrives in such an environment is to be a douchebag and thats simply not true.

If you convince yourself your a victim of the environment of the game, you'll always feel victimized here -- but thats not the fault of anyone on the server, its the fault of someone who was clearly not prepared for the ramifications of such freedoms in the world.

We all came for the very mechanics you speak of, and none of us play PK's (or are really even into PvP, frankly). And I know we're far from the only ones. If you're unwilling to rough it to experience what this shard has to offer, thats not the fault of anyone on this shard but yourself.

Of course it is not mutually exclusive because they once existed mutually. You even added an "any longer" disclaimer as if that precludes it from being so. It does however fit with the rest of your hyperbolic post. I never said I wanted reward without risk and can't possibly see how objecting to an exploit could possibly be misconstrued as such. Your strawman position really didn't even address the issue at hand so I can only conclude you are grandstanding.

Read my subsequent posts and you'll hopefully understand my point. Just to be succinct, I say it's an exploit, you say it's the experience everyone is looking for... everyone has a right to an opinion.

They are mutually exclusive. They were not, in era, on OSI. This is not OSI. The only parallels you can draw is that we aim to recreate the mechanics of the era. Just because things were as you remember in OSI does not mean that experience can be replicated here -- it cannot. Thats the simple truth of it. People are more experienced, its 15 years later, and the only people who continue to play are those who adore UO for what it is. That necessitates that the even mix of newbies, casual players, and hardcore players you found in OSI *WILL NOT* exist on a free shard, here or anywhere. It really is as simple as the formula of (New Game Experience) + ( Open World) + (High User Base) = (Experience). Variable A, new game experience, is out the window -- therefore the newness of what was felt on OSI is gone forever. It cannot be recaptured without a time machine.

I get your point, but you seem to choose to ignore that the points I've made have been made time and time and time again by the staff as a response to this issue. Their stance hasn't changed in over a year, and they are *FIRM* that this is not an exploit. Everyone is entitled to opinion, but when it comes down to binary positive or negative issues -- there is only correct or incorrect. Your opinion that the judgement that this is not a bug is your own, but it has been clearly stated many times that the developers -- the only ones who matter in this scenario -- do not agree, and will not be making changes accordingly.

In other words, continuing down this line of argument is a waste of time, regardless of your opinions on the situation -- if you don't have specific evidence to prove this was not possible in era, you're just spinning wheels.

[Jay]

Chapter One of War and Peace by Leo Tolstoy

“Well, Prince, so Genoa and Lucca are now just family estates of the Buonapartes. But I warn you, if you don’t tell me that this means war, if you still try to defend the infamies and horrors perpetrated by that Antichrist—I really believe he is Antichrist—I will have nothing more to do with you and you are no longer my friend, no longer my ‘faithful slave,’ as you call yourself! But how do you do? I see I have frightened you—sit down and tell me all the news.”

t was in July, 1805, and the speaker was the well-known Anna Pavlovna Scherer, maid of honor and favorite of the Empress Marya Fedorovna. With these words she greeted Prince Vasili Kuragin, a man of high rank and importance, who was the first to arrive at her reception. Anna Pavlovna had had a cough for some days. She was, as she said, suffering from la grippe; grippe being then a new word in St. Petersburg, used only by the elite.

All her invitations without exception, written in French, and delivered by a scarlet-liveried footman that morning, ran as follows:

“If you have nothing better to do, Count (or Prince), and if the prospect of spending an evening with a poor invalid is not too terrible, I shall be very charmed to see you tonight between 7 and 10—Annette Scherer.”

“Heavens! what a virulent attack!” replied the prince, not in the least disconcerted by this reception. He had just entered, wearing an embroidered court uniform, knee breeches, and shoes, and had stars on his breast and a serene expression on his flat face. He spoke in that refined French in which our grandfathers not only spoke but thought, and with the gentle, patronizing intonation natural to a man of importance who had grown old in society and at court. He went up to Anna Pavlovna, kissed her hand, presenting to her his bald, scented, and shining head, and complacently seated himself on the sofa. - TO BE CONTINUED...

[MajesticWire]

No matter what bugs or witch bugs worked and was active back then, doesnt matter at all - The problem here on UOSA is its not a bug.

If GMs just said DONT do this its ban reason.. it would be cool with me.. cuz thats how it is supose to be, also back then.. if u cheat or use bugs u do get banned.. end of story - and end of debate of this era accuracy,

Thats the main concern, its not that they dont fix it, but that they say that its allowed here..

If this was fair for everybody, i would also be allright with it. but its not fair at all..



corruption42 ---> just so u know i think you a big jerk (a bug).
Strawmen burns fast and drops even faster on the battlefield. (but then again you prolly the guy that just nukes people inside the houses while they afk)

[chumbucket]

No matter what bugs or witch bugs worked and was active back then, doesnt matter at all - The problem here on UOSA is its not a bug.

If GMs just said DONT do this its ban reason.. it would be cool with me.. cuz thats how it is supose to be, also back then.. if u cheat or use bugs u do get banned.. end of story - and end of debate of this era accuracy,

Thats the main concern, its not that they dont fix it, but that they say that its allowed here..

If this was fair for everybody, i would also be allright with it. but its not fair at all..




corruption42 ---> just so u know i think you a big jerk (a bug).
Strawmen burns fast and drops even faster on the battlefield. (but then again you prolly the guy that just nukes people inside the houses while they afk)

/ignored. People like this clutter up the forums. We get it: You don't care for the policies people have developed for the use and design of their personal property they make accessible to you for free. Crying changes nothing.

[MajesticWire]

No matter what bugs or witch bugs worked and was active back then, doesnt matter at all - The problem here on UOSA is its not a bug.

If GMs just said DONT do this its ban reason.. it would be cool with me.. cuz thats how it is supose to be, also back then.. if u cheat or use bugs u do get banned.. end of story - and end of debate of this era accuracy,

Thats the main concern, its not that they dont fix it, but that they say that its allowed here..

If this was fair for everybody, i would also be allright with it. but its not fair at all..




corruption42 ---> just so u know i think you a big jerk (a bug).
Strawmen burns fast and drops even faster on the battlefield. (but then again you prolly the guy that just nukes people inside the houses while they afk)

/ignored. People like this clutter up the forums. We get it: You don't care for the policies people have developed for the use and design of their personal property they make accessible to you for free. Crying changes nothing.

/ignored. eh

[corruption42]

No matter what bugs or witch bugs worked and was active back then, doesnt matter at all - The problem here on UOSA is its not a bug.

If GMs just said DONT do this its ban reason.. it would be cool with me.. cuz thats how it is supose to be, also back then.. if u cheat or use bugs u do get banned.. end of story - and end of debate of this era accuracy,

Thats the main concern, its not that they dont fix it, but that they say that its allowed here..

If this was fair for everybody, i would also be allright with it. but its not fair at all..




corruption42 ---> just so u know i think you a big jerk (a bug).
Strawmen burns fast and drops even faster on the battlefield. (but then again you prolly the guy that just nukes people inside the houses while they afk)

/ignored. People like this clutter up the forums. We get it: You don't care for the policies people have developed for the use and design of their personal property they make accessible to you for free. Crying changes nothing.

Words of wisdom, good sir. Didn't want to start getting into ignores this early into being a member of the shard -- but this is just childish nonsense. Enjoy whining to crickets!

[MajesticWire]

No matter what bugs or witch bugs worked and was active back then, doesnt matter at all - The problem here on UOSA is its not a bug.

If GMs just said DONT do this its ban reason.. it would be cool with me.. cuz thats how it is supose to be, also back then.. if u cheat or use bugs u do get banned.. end of story - and end of debate of this era accuracy,

Thats the main concern, its not that they dont fix it, but that they say that its allowed here..

If this was fair for everybody, i would also be allright with it. but its not fair at all..




corruption42 ---> just so u know i think you a big jerk (a bug).
Strawmen burns fast and drops even faster on the battlefield. (but then again you prolly the guy that just nukes people inside the houses while they afk)

/ignored. People like this clutter up the forums. We get it: You don't care for the policies people have developed for the use and design of their personal property they make accessible to you for free. Crying changes nothing.

Words of wisdom, good sir. Didn't want to start getting into ignores this early into being a member of the shard -- but this is just childish nonsense. Enjoy whining to crickets!

My accounts is 889 days old. But then again you just seem to know everything.