Joined a week ago but considering leaving...

[Reena Dae]

The problem here are the new players marmelade. Players that have no idea of what a hally/wrestling timer is. Players that dont come to the forums that often(maybe never). Why do PKs kill people like that? People that arent even on horses? To take some NPC weapon and some apples and trash them? What is thrilling about this?

I understand PKing, I just dont understand PKing noobs. No reward, no emotion, nothing.

This is a problem with the culture. While it is era accurate, it just wasn't that common. I don't mean to suggest we should have Trammel or Haven or any of those other silly things OSI did to break the game. UO did a bad job of handling player justice, there's no incentive to protect or help other players (lolkarma for curing "good" people?). I took 2 murder counts on my main character, killing people who had killed me before (one was a noto PK, jumped me while I was grey from blade spirits), which doesn't sound very fair if you explain it to someone who doesn't understand the rules.

Honestly, I don't believe ghosting was nearly as prolific in 1999 as it is here. I had 2 accounts by the end of 1999, but I sure as hell wasn't using it for ghosting. The thought never occurred to me. I was too busy alternating which account was macroing and which account I was playing on.

[voodoo]

Honestly, I don't believe ghosting was nearly as prolific in 1999 as it is here. I had 2 accounts by the end of 1999, but I sure as hell wasn't using it for ghosting. The thought never occurred to me. I was too busy alternating which account was macroing and which account I was playing on.

Exactly. You would never have used a real account for ghosting, because that would have been a frivolous waste of money. Here, you can do it at will because the account price has to be inaccurate, so it's much, much easier.

[Lucien]

So the existing of ghosting is inaccurate. A anti-ghosting script would solve everything. What is still impeding us? It was allowed at that time, but nobody did it. Should we guide ourselves by what T2A was or what T2A could have been? I prefer the first option.

[voodoo]

So the existing of ghosting is inaccurate. A anti-ghosting script would solve everything. What is still impeding us? It was allowed at that time, but nobody did it. Should we guide ourselves by what T2A was or what T2A could have been? I prefer the first option.

Once again, that is selective accuracy. T2A accounts cost money, the lack of which is what's making the dedicated use of ghosts and trackers a viable option here. If you want to claim accuracy, you can't just adopt one thing and damn the consequences (accurate client/server ghosting mechanics), while not adopting another because the consequences are deemed too severe (accurate account costs) when the two are so inextricably tied together in creating the problem.

This is the problem with the UOSA community in a nutshell. In this case, since we cannot achieve full accuracy without killing the shard, a compromise solution has to be reached to at least approximate true era accuracy, instead of just covering our eyes and chanting 'ACCURACY!' over and over.

[BlackLeaf]

I would like to add here my 2 cents on the problem of multi accounting and cost.
Cant we make it so that playing with 1 account is free,but beeing allowed to connect more than one requires a fee to be paid?That way we can mantain the title of free shard,while greatly decreasing,and making accurate, the problems connected to the use of more than one account?I dont say to pay for the account(s) itself (so we dont loose our alts alredy 7x),but for the ability to connect more than onece at a time.People with more person playing in the same house could write an e-mail for requesting free multiaccounting,as in other free shards that only allow 1 account.And the shard will also be garanted more income,thus making it better for everyone.
I dont know if it is possible,but could be an option.

[Halogen]

1) I swear I'm back in 1998 listening to the same people who destroyed everything that was fun about UO.

2) Use your own 3 accts in creative ways to counteract the "problems" you perceive, or once again there are a zillion other places you can go to where you will be perfectly safe 24/7, no one can loot you, block you or otherwise annoy you.

3) My wife and I had 3 accts during this time period, and I knew a ton of people who had an extra acct for ghosting/retrieving their stuff when they died to monsters/countering PKs/Pking people to clear a dungeon for themselves/etc....once again, you don't know what you're talking about, although of course you would like to rewrite history to suit your need to be pampered.

4) Guilds working together using ICQ and other methods ghosted/PKed/griefed/raided/avenged/etc in real time during peak times, and often 24/7, during this time period.

5) There are times when farming is relatively safe here....there were no such times in era....there were so many thousands of people on most every shard, playing at all times of day in all dungeons, including thieves, blue PKs, stealthing blockers, the list goes on....if you only knew how good you've got it here.

This is a pathetic approach to a situation that existed and is totally era accurate, no matter how much you whine to the contrary....either create a strong anti-guild or expect to die, get looted, and get griefed on a daily basis....only the strong survive here.

[voodoo]

1) I swear I'm back in 1998 listening to the same people who destroyed everything that was fun about UO.

2) Use your own 3 accts in creative ways to counteract the "problems" you perceive, or once again there are a zillion other places you can go to where you will be perfectly safe 24/7, no one can loot you, block you or otherwise annoy you.

3) My wife and I had 3 accts during this time period, and I knew a ton of people who had an extra acct for ghosting/retrieving their stuff when they died to monsters/countering PKs/Pking people to clear a dungeon for themselves/etc....once again, you don't know what you're talking about, although of course you would like to rewrite history to suit your need to be pampered.

4) Guilds working together using ICQ and other methods ghosted/PKed/griefed/raided/avenged/etc in real time during peak times, and often 24/7, during this time period.

5) There are times when farming is relatively safe here....there were no such times in era....there were so many thousands of people on most every shard, playing at all times of day in all dungeons, including thieves, blue PKs, stealthing blockers, the list goes on....if you only knew how good you've got it here.

This is a pathetic approach to a situation that existed and is totally era accurate, no matter how much you whine to the contrary....either create a strong anti-guild or expect to die, get looted, and get griefed on a daily basis....only the strong survive here.

1) You are not. This point is an obvious emotional appeal.

2) This is a valid way of combating the current inaccuracy for an individual player with the time and resources to do so, but relying on this for a solution for all players (rather than as one of more options option for any one player) will create an undesirable selection bias in the player base - short and sweet, this means that as a rule, only powergamers will be able to establish themselves enough to have reliable fun on the shard. I already touched on this earlier, so one can re-read my earlier posts for clarifications.

3) Anecdotal evidence is insufficient standard of proof to make a claim of accuracy. Aside from that, it is not relevant how many people actually had three accounts during T2A, because that's social accuracy, which we're not actively trying to recreate (it is explicitly assumed that social accuracy will follow mechanical accuracy). What is relevant here is the inaccurate mechanic of free accounts making ghosting/trackers too cost-effective.

4) This is not a viable tactic on this shard because of the low population, which is in part caused by this problem to begin with. This could be construed as undermining your point.

5) Similarly to above, this is a social inaccuracy that is in part created by this very problem. This could also be construed as undermining your own point.

In conclusion, this post does not help. It is chock full of malapplied era accuracy arguments, but fails to deal with the relevant accuracy items, and it is slowing down progress. Every ill conceived argument people don't take five minutes to think about takes time for others who do to dispel before the discussion can move on to more productive matters, such as turning the community attitude around, or a clever way to introduce era-equivalent, non-dollar costs for having accounts or using them for dedicated ghosters/trackers.

[BobDobbs]

1) I swear I'm back in 1998 listening to the same people who destroyed everything that was fun about UO.

2) Use your own 3 accts in creative ways to counteract the "problems" you perceive, or once again there are a zillion other places you can go to where you will be perfectly safe 24/7, no one can loot you, block you or otherwise annoy you.

3) My wife and I had 3 accts during this time period, and I knew a ton of people who had an extra acct for ghosting/retrieving their stuff when they died to monsters/countering PKs/Pking people to clear a dungeon for themselves/etc....once again, you don't know what you're talking about, although of course you would like to rewrite history to suit your need to be pampered.

4) Guilds working together using ICQ and other methods ghosted/PKed/griefed/raided/avenged/etc in real time during peak times, and often 24/7, during this time period.

5) There are times when farming is relatively safe here....there were no such times in era....there were so many thousands of people on most every shard, playing at all times of day in all dungeons, including thieves, blue PKs, stealthing blockers, the list goes on....if you only knew how good you've got it here.

This is a pathetic approach to a situation that existed and is totally era accurate, no matter how much you whine to the contrary....either create a strong anti-guild or expect to die, get looted, and get griefed on a daily basis....only the strong survive here.

1. There is a distinct difference between complaining about PKs and complaining about ghosting. The removal of the former would drastically alter the spirit of the game itself, removal of the latter would drastically alter the way a minority of people play.
2. This is a fair point.
3. I think you're re-writing history to match your personal experiences. My room mate and I both played, so we both had access to multiple accounts. Trying to claim that ghosting on UOSA is as prevalent as it was on OSI is you trying to re-write history, claiming that the ability to do so existed is not.
4. This is a fair point, but irrelevant.
5. I agree with this point. UOSA is much, much easier to progress on than OSI. But you've propped this, the most important point, up with nonsense. And that's unfortunate.

[Halogen]

voodoo, what it all boils down to, regardless of your pseudo-intellectual high-school debate/logic class non-sequiturs, is this:

This is the way the shard is.

This is the way the shard is going to be.

Those of us that were actually there, including Derrick, realize this is the way it was, and love every minute of it....this was the only era of "real UO" there ever was to people like us, and soon after this time period, the sheer weight of people like yourself sucked out the soul of the game in our view....which is why Derrick re-created this era, the stable, wild-west era of UO that so many people lamented the passing of for a decade until Derrick brought it's triumphant return.

The subsequent massive dropoff in shard population on the pay shards after this era was not nearly as much due to the advent of Everquest as it was to the death of what made UO unique....which people like yourself were directly responsible for.

My understanding is that EA is actually considering bringing back a shard based largely on Derrick's model, for obvious reasons....but I will stay here because luckily Derrick doesn't have to answer to anyone....he is a benevolent dictator with his own vision of how things should be on his shard, and he has proven time and time again that any attempt to destroy the soul of his shard through whittling away at what makes it great will rightfully be ignored.

The shard is what it is...the best out there by far....enjoy or go elsewhere....then realize your mistake and come back.

[Reena Dae]

1) I swear I'm back in 1998 listening to the same people who destroyed everything that was fun about UO.

And what was fun for you? Ganking, griefing, scamming, and killing newbs who obviously had nothing? No one is asking for Trammel here. However, this ruleset offers nothing for the segment of players that are missing. OSI got away with offering them nothing because they didn't have competition until EQ and AC came along.

2) Use your own 3 accts in creative ways to counteract the "problems" you perceive, or once again there are a zillion other places you can go to where you will be perfectly safe 24/7, no one can loot you, block you or otherwise annoy you.

3) My wife and I had 3 accts during this time period, and I knew a ton of people who had an extra acct for ghosting/retrieving their stuff when they died to monsters/countering PKs/Pking people to clear a dungeon for themselves/etc....once again, you don't know what you're talking about, although of course you would like to rewrite history to suit your need to be pampered.

Good for you? In my circle of friends, I was the only one who had more than one account. Most people I knew only had 1 fully developed character on their account and a few partially developed alts. Most families didn't have more than 1 PC (necessary for having additional accounts online at the same time during this time period). It wasn't until I met my future husband that I actually found another person who had multiple accounts. No one is arguing this didn't exist, it just wasn't that common.

4) Guilds working together using ICQ and other methods ghosted/PKed/griefed/raided/avenged/etc in real time during peak times, and often 24/7, during this time period.

Who needs friends when you can have 3 fully developed accounts to do everything you'll ever need?

5) There are times when farming is relatively safe here....there were no such times in era....there were so many thousands of people on most every shard, playing at all times of day in all dungeons, including thieves, blue PKs, stealthing blockers, the list goes on....if you only knew how good you've got it here.

This is a pathetic approach to a situation that existed and is totally era accurate, no matter how much you whine to the contrary....either create a strong anti-guild or expect to die, get looted, and get griefed on a daily basis....only the strong survive here.

Maybe Napa was differen't than where you're from. Most of the time, I went wherever I pleased and was rarely molested. I was PKed twice before I got GM taming, guardwhacked a few times from unexpected flagging issues involving pets, and had a few other random failed PK attempts where I either escaped or my pets dealt with them because they were idiots.

Then again, I was poor and didn't care too much that I was poor. Destard was the only dungeon I had a use for, and only for taming dragons... not to kill them.

[voodoo]

"Love it or leave it" is not at all what this "boils down to", in fact, it's completely irrelevant to this discussion, and completely wrong. There are obviously still many inaccuracies, even aside from the ghosting aspect (which I must repeat is inaccurate because accounts were not free during our era - see previous posts).

Derrick patches these inaccuracies all the time, you must have noticed that. That doesn't mean the shard isn't great fun to a powergamer like me.

[Generic Player]

Halogen, acting like a child doesn't help anything. You know as well as everyone else that nobody is asking for trammel, and yet all you can do is keep repeating the "hurr durr UO was a giant gankfest and nothing else, go away carebear" nonsense. Grow up, nobody is stupid enough to turn off their brains and pretend your post has anything to do with the topic. You might not have played the rest of the game, but tens of thousands of other people did. And this server is nowhere even close to recreating classic UO, it only recreates the one tiny aspect that you happen to care about: ganking noobs.

I played atlantic, and I have run into more PKs in 35 days of having an account here (most of which I haven't played because most of what I enjoyed in UO is broken here) than I did in all of 97 and 98 combined. Atlantic was the server full of assholes, and it was miles better than here. The vast majority of people you ran into were decent people. On this server 90% of people are just here to gank noobs. Even the so-called PvPers (who in actual UO would have been busy PvPing) are out ganking half health noobs in the middle of fighting an orc mage. I have only run into 6 or 7 blues while doing PvE, and of those one tried to PK me and the other succeeded. Meanwhile I've encountered ten times as many reds. Most of whom mysteriously know the instant I come back and just happen to come back too.

This server does not recreate classic UO, it recreates the crappy player run "PvP" servers of the era that consisted of nothing but cowardly gankers. It even has taming nerfed so that the cowards can gank in peace with no worries of actually dying just like "PvP" servers of old. As it stands now a group of 3 reds can watch 6 important camps waiting for people to show up, knowing in advance it is perfectly safe, then stroll in for a gank and run. This server will never come close to recreating UO unless that changes.

[Halogen]

Generic Player....if this shard sucks so badly, why are you here?

[Generic Player]

Because it claimed to be a recreation of T2A. I am interested in seeing if it will become one or not. Do you actually have anything to add to the discussion or is that beyond your capabilities?

[voodoo]

You know what, there are obviously more people who get it than there are people who don't, so I'm just gonna go ahead and start a topic on how to concretely resolve this in Era Accuracy instead of waiting for approval from the leetpvp crowd. I'm sure Derrick would implement a solid proposal that fit accuracy criteria and improved shard balance, and there's probably a lot of community things we could be doing better to make dedicated ghosting/tracking less effective as well.