Stable Masters:

[Hemperor]

You guys seem to be running off course. The issue at hand is whether stable masters out of town were invul.

On that matter, there has yet to be any evidence displaying whether stable masters existed out of town and where. They do not normally spawn out of town, so assuming they would be normal stable masters is not a safe assumption. Start at the bottom and work your way up, why hasn't anyone been able to mention a single "player town" that had a stable master? With a player town name, surely there must be a single website mentioning it out there.

[Kaivan]

Some player run towns did have them, although they were rare. The only occurrence of one that I know of on Great Lakes was RD's auction out near the Britain swamps. On the Eastern side of the tower under the wing a small fenced in area was built with a single invulnerable stablemaster. This is the only stablemaster that I ever knew of outside of town on Great Lakes. Unfortunately there is no way for me to prove the invulnerability of the NPC during the era.

[Kraarug]

Some player run towns did have them, although they were rare. The only occurrence of one that I know of on Great Lakes was RD's auction out near the Britain swamps. On the Eastern side of the tower under the wing a small fenced in area was built with a single invulnerable stablemaster. This is the only stablemaster that I ever knew of outside of town on Great Lakes. Unfortunately there is no way for me to prove the invulnerability of the NPC during the era.

Conversely, there is no way to prove that a Player Run Town's Stablemaster would have been coded any different than normal town residing one.

To try to disprove some of these unsubstantialated claims that on OSI people somehow were able to especially kill Player Run Town stablemasters is a little far fetched. That's like me asking someone to disprove the moon is made of cheese and claim that unless proven otherwise it is.


http://www.straightdope.com/columns/rea ... myth-start

It's rather clear, unless someone can prove a special 'out of town experience' for player run town stablemasters they should be treated as invulable along with the in town one.

It's far fetched to think that OSI, reconginzing the problem of what a murder to a Stablemaster would bring to those who have pets stabled with him or her, would electively decide to just keep the issue/bug alive for player run towns. To what benefit or purpose would that serve?

[Hemperor]

Some player run towns did have them, although they were rare. The only occurrence of one that I know of on Great Lakes was RD's auction out near the Britain swamps. On the Eastern side of the tower under the wing a small fenced in area was built with a single invulnerable stablemaster. This is the only stablemaster that I ever knew of outside of town on Great Lakes. Unfortunately there is no way for me to prove the invulnerability of the NPC during the era.

Conversely, there is no way to prove that a Player Run Town's Stablemaster would have been coded any different than normal town residing one.

To try to disprove some of these unsubstantialated claims that on OSI people somehow were able to especially kill Player Run Town stablemasters is a little far fetched. That's like me asking someone to disprove the moon is made of cheese and claim that unless proven otherwise it is.


http://www.straightdope.com/columns/rea ... myth-start

It's rather clear, unless someone can prove a special 'out of town experience' for player run town stablemasters they should be treated as invulable along with the in town one.

It's far fetched to think that OSI, reconginzing the problem of what a murder to a Stablemaster would bring to those who have pets stabled with him or her, would electively decide to just keep the issue/bug alive for player run towns. To what benefit or purpose would that serve?

It still requires more looking into, information on subjects like this don't usually turn up in a day. Either way, you can expect the argument over whether each player town should just be granted stable masters to come up soon, that certainly wasn't the case on OSI.

[Faust]

I don't think Kraarug is following the discussion very well at all... Try reading both of the sources that were introduced in this thread again.

Stablemasters on Test Center now have yellow names. Probably the best thing to happen to stablehands since they were all made invulnerable almost a year ago. It will make searching for a lost stablehand much easier once it gets put on a live shard.

Hanse posted about Stablemaster Changes:

"Stablemasters are currently being tested on Test Center. If you are interested in seeing/testing changes to the stablemaster, please visit Test Center. More information on the new stablemasters is posted at http://update.uo.com/design_225.html. The skill values listed are not base skill values. They include your stat modifications."


The new system benefits over the current system:

If a stablehand dies, you do not lose your pets.
If a stablehand is recreated, your pets do not have the chance of being on a stablehand you do not expect them to be on.
You can stable and unstable anywhere (stablemasters never fill up). This is a great bonus for the new players joining the game. Currently, some new players have a hard time stabling their pets in Trammel (and do not want to go to Felucca/do not have time to go to Felucca).
While spawn blocking is possible on Test Center, it is much more limited than the current system. It is only temporary and cannot be a permanent block, as with the current system. We do have a fix in progress for spawn blocking.

Now try following this time Kraarug... We have two posts here around the same time. The first one states that "Stable masters" were made invulnerable a "year ago" from the date of October '00 meaning somewhere VERY close to our cut off date. The other article on the other hand states that "stable masters" will no longer lose the "stabled pets" upon death due to the globalization of stables that is being patched in. If ALL stable masters were invulnerable for that long why would stable masters be losing their pets still even a year later after they "supposedly" couldn't due to the fact that they were invulnerable...

[Kraarug]

I don't need to follow the time line because it's clear that OSI made them Invul in 1999. That puts this in our T2A replication.

And besides, what you are suggesting, by keeping them localized and NOT having them Invul would just open the doors wide open for a mass clearing of stables.

If things went in this way, then you can bet that many people will just town kill stablemasters and that would wipe all stabled pets. After all, what would stop them?

Think through what you are suggesting.

[Faust]

I am fully aware of what is being "suggested" here...

Do you think tears are coming down my cheeks because my tamer "may" lose his huge inventory of stabled pets?

Both sources can be looked at in two different versions...

1. All stable masters didn't become invulnerable until October '00 making article one invalid.
2. All stable masters inside of non-player run towns were invulnerable since '99 and any other stable upkeep outside of town wasn't. This would mean both articles are correct noting that not "all" stable masters were invulnerable due to the fact that they still were dying in October '00. This fully backs up my recollection that player run town stables were not invulnerable.

I think the obvious according to both articles isn't hard to point out.

PS
I would like to point out that stable masters in game are not "invulnerable" making your comment towards "if you want change than prove it" even further invalid due to the simple fact that "change" would be required to make them invulnerable in the first place... This obviously means that my supposedly "suggestion for change" isn't even a request for it since they are obviously not invulnerable in game already.

[Kraarug]

I am fully aware of what is being "suggested" here...

Do you think tears are coming down my cheeks because my tamer "may" lose his huge inventory of stabled pets?

Both sources can be looked at in two different versions...

1. All stable masters didn't become invulnerable until October '00.
2. All stable masters inside of non-player run towns were invulnerable since '99 and any other stable upkeep outside of town wasn't.

I think the obvious according to both articles isn't hard to point out.

I've noticed that you tend to frame things into points that fit what you want to see. I do not see anything from your sources that even hints that there is a difference between stablemaster in town and those that may be associated with player run towns.

You have nothing to suggest that there was a difference.

The more likely scenariro are:
3. REPLACEMENT Stablemasters were spawned as invulnerable from the time they were changed in 1999 to October 2000.

So, perhaps the older NPCs were killable and yes, they lost their pets before October 2000. After that point, when localization was changed, a non-invulerable NPC didn't lose their pets upon death. Their replacement carried their inventory like the system we have now.

And it's obvious that no, you wouldn't cry a tear for a tamer.

[Kefka]

Anti tamers, be careful of what you ask for.

i cannot possibly see derrick making pets bound to specific stablemasters without making them invulnerable. there is also zero evidence that stablemasters outside of town were not invulnerable.

do you really want ACE to have an invulnerable stablemaster?

Again, be careful of what you ask for.

[Kraarug]

Anti tamers, be careful of what you ask for.

i cannot possibly see derrick making pets bound to specific stablemasters without making them invulnerable. there is also zero evidence that stablemasters outside of town were not invulnerable.

do you really want ACE to have an invulnerable stablemaster?

Again, be careful of what you ask for.

Yes, seriously. You see this pretty clear.

But what they want is that the Stables in town to be invulerable, you know, where they keep their llamas and horses. They want the ability to kill a 60 HP NPC ourside of town and destroy their inventory.

Or, even as Faust has stated, if none of the stablesmasters were made invulerable then people could town-kill them and destroy the whole shards inventory.

Seems like a non-starter to me and I don't even have a tamer.

[Faust]

I am fully aware of what is being "suggested" here...

Do you think tears are coming down my cheeks because my tamer "may" lose his huge inventory of stabled pets?

Both sources can be looked at in two different versions...

1. All stable masters didn't become invulnerable until October '00.
2. All stable masters inside of non-player run towns were invulnerable since '99 and any other stable upkeep outside of town wasn't.

I think the obvious according to both articles isn't hard to point out.

I've noticed that you tend to frame things into points that fit what you want to see. I do not see anything from your sources that even hints that there is a difference between stablemaster in town and those that may be associated with player run towns.

You have nothing to suggest that there was a difference.

The more likely scenariro are:
3. REPLACEMENT Stablemasters were spawned as invulnerable from the time they were changed in 1999 to October 2000.

So, perhaps the older NPCs were killable and yes, they lost their pets before October 2000. After that point, when localization was changed, a non-invulerable NPC didn't lose their pets upon death. Their replacement carried their inventory like the system we have now.

And it's obvious that no, you wouldn't cry a tear for a tamer.

Well apparently you are requesting that stable masters were invulnerable since they are not in game already? Due to your same previous argument you will have to prove that they weren't based on your analogy earlier in this thread for this "change". Also, you make a comment that I state what "fits" me when this is obviously untrue based on your bias towards everything that you prefer from previous experiences in your thread. I have a tamer and would be very annoyed if my stock pile of pets were lost. However, this doesn't mean that I prefer an inaccuracy over convenience as you obviously prefer. I base my analogy off from the sources that are in front of my eyes...

The articles obviously state that stable masters will no longer lose their stabled pets upon death in October '00. This would obviously mean one of two things. Stable masters weren't invulnerable, or some were and weren't at the same time. The fact that you really think some stable masters weren't killed off to "respawn" invulnerable npcs in a span of a year is completely absurd. I'm sorry but your anaologies are simply pipe dreams based on your bias opinions from past and current posts from my experience dealing with you.

[Kefka]

I am fully aware of what is being "suggested" here...

Do you think tears are coming down my cheeks because my tamer "may" lose his huge inventory of stabled pets?

Both sources can be looked at in two different versions...

1. All stable masters didn't become invulnerable until October '00.
2. All stable masters inside of non-player run towns were invulnerable since '99 and any other stable upkeep outside of town wasn't.

I think the obvious according to both articles isn't hard to point out.

I've noticed that you tend to frame things into points that fit what you want to see. I do not see anything from your sources that even hints that there is a difference between stablemaster in town and those that may be associated with player run towns.

You have nothing to suggest that there was a difference.

The more likely scenariro are:
3. REPLACEMENT Stablemasters were spawned as invulnerable from the time they were changed in 1999 to October 2000.

So, perhaps the older NPCs were killable and yes, they lost their pets before October 2000. After that point, when localization was changed, a non-invulerable NPC didn't lose their pets upon death. Their replacement carried their inventory like the system we have now.

And it's obvious that no, you wouldn't cry a tear for a tamer.

Well apparently you are requesting that stable masters were invulnerable since they are not in game already? Due to your same previous argument you will have to prove that they weren't based on your analogy earlier in this thread for this "change". Also, you make a comment that I state what "fits" me when this is obviously untrue based on your bias towards everything that you prefer from previous experiences in your thread. I have a tamer and would be very annoyed if my stock pile of pets were lost. However, this doesn't mean that I prefer an inaccuracy over convenience as you obviously prefer. I base my analogy off from the sources that are in front of my eyes...

The articles obviously state that stable masters will no longer lose their stabled pets upon death in October '00. This would obviously mean one of two things. Stable masters weren't invulnerable, or some were and weren't at the same time. The fact that you really think some stable masters weren't killed off to "respawn" invulnerable npcs in a span of a year is completely absurd. I'm sorry but your anaologies are simply pipe dreams based on your bias opinions from past and current posts from my experience dealing with you.

There's most information referring to them being invulnerable instead of not being invulnerable.

YAY INVULNERABLE STABLEMATERS!!! keep up the good work faust! (hahahahahah)

[Faust]

If a stablehand dies, you do not lose your pets.

Yup, sure sounds like they were invulnerable.

Do you know how to count?

October '00 is six months after the UOR era... and you can add 4 months to that based on our cut off date of November '99.

Keep up the useless comments Kefka.

[Kefka]

"Wednesday, October 11, 2000 - http://tamingarchive.com/index.php?archive=2000.10"]
Stablemasters on Test Center now have yellow names. Probably the best thing to happen to stablehands since they were all made invulnerable almost a year ago. It will make searching for a lost stablehand much easier once it gets put on a live shard.

This stated that "almost a year ago", which would be roughly around Oct 1999, stablemasters were made invulnerable.

Mar 9 2000 http://update.uo.com/design_180.html
Shopkeeper Changes
Any shopkeeper that is currently [invulnerable] will lose that status except for stablemasters.

This shows that stablemasters WERE indeed invulnerable before March 2000, and when you tie it together with the first patch notes, it shows that they were made invulnerable on or before Oct 1999.

You referenced something in Oct 2000 which stated "when stablematers die they will no longer lose their pets". The above patch notes clearly illustrate that either A) Something was iffy with the Oct 2000 patch notes you provided, or B) something changed between Mar 2000 and Oct 2000, possibly, they were made UNinvulnerable during that time.

Either way, based on the patch notes above, it's clearly obvious that they were made invulnerable around sep-oct 1999.

Faust, if you disagree with me, and still claim you want era accuracy, it's going to show how damn biased you may be on this subject. Also, NONE of the patch notes mention anything about out of town stablemasters NOT being invulnerable, so as i said before, WATCH WHAT YOU ASK FOR.

SON

[Kraarug]

Let me make this clearer for you...

The more likely scenariro are:
3. REPLACEMENT Stablemasters were spawned as invulnerable from the time they were changed in 1999 to October 2000.

Meaning that if non-invulerable NPC stable master was kill, their pets died with them BUT they were replaced by a Invulerable NPC. So yes Mr. Faust, I am saying that there were two populations of NPC Stablemasters on OSI from about October 1999 to October 2000.

This scenairo satisfies the requirements of all citations and references.