UO Second Age

only been back a week and am sitting at -28,

first one to the bottom Wins!!!!


I must agree though.

I have done Nothing Wrong, I Deserve the Right to Vote,!!!

in the immortal words of William Wallace!
FREEDOM!!!!

Derrick wrote:They cannot be as of a couple days ago.

I'm not sure if it's as abusable as it may appear, but time will tell.

i think time has spoken!

May we have the "Despicable" category changed to "Dastardly" for DarkWing. I may be wrong, but I think he's heading that way for better or worse. I just want to be able to call him a Dastardly Duck.

Protip: The fact that you have bad karma doesn't mean the karma system is broken.

chumbucket wrote:Protip: The fact that you have bad karma doesn't mean the karma system is broken.

not broken ... just abused!

yup ... Abuse at its Finest!

chumbucket wrote:Protip: The fact that you have bad karma doesn't mean the karma system is broken.

Actually, it's quite evidently broken when some of the most helpful players here for years are negative karma and now can't rate others due to some anonymous user(s) hissy fit. I was negative karma SOLELY due to religion post in the Other forum, although rating in the Other boards is now disabled this is still directly evident to someone rating based off of not liking myself.

I thoroughly appreciate Derrick's constant work however I feel this system acheives nothing and if anything is only detrimental. I haven't seen a shard with better community support than this one, so why the need for the addition of something like this that really doesn't fit in the scopes of UO anyways? Word of mouth, "your name" count for a lot here and this has always worked... I don't see the need for a system where people can disabled others and make them look negative anonymously for no reason.

Another thought, is this only encouraging the creation of more new never used forum accounts?

I appreciate Derrick's intentions, and no doubt there is room for some customisation to bidazzle the now ancient phpBB boards, but this is going about it wrong I believe.

At the end of the day, this doesn't affect much, just simply pointing out that I don't feel this system is achieving what it was meant to at all and is only causing further issues.

People shouldn't be able to downvote old posts made before the system was put in.

I went from being kind +8 to rude -2 from one post made in 2011, lol.

It's flawed indeed!

only reason one chooses to give negative karma is to keep hearing people complain!!

so once again griefers +1 = win..

Klein wrote:only reason one chooses to give negative karma is to keep hearing people complain!!

so once again griefers +1 = win..

Sorry, I guess I'm just above caring what forum griefer's think.

This system was obviously put in place to help people find support (mainly new players) and it's clearly not succeeding. The same argument of "well leave the stables alone and they will one day be empty again" clearly doesn't work. Staying silent about a broken system because I am otherwise afraid of boosting some forum troll's epeen momentarily is silly.

If Derrick feels there is an issue with people receiving support and well informed posts regarding the game, then let's discuss it and find a solution, I and others are pointing out that his one doesn't seem to serve that purpose.

Hemperor wrote:Actually, it's quite evidently broken when some of the most helpful players here for years are negative karma and now can't rate others due to some anonymous user(s) hissy fit.

Many of these helpful players are complete douches. Some aren't and don't deserve bad karma, e.g., Cattie, but many, many, many of them are generally disliked despite their "good reputation." It's karma!

Hemperor wrote:I was negative karma SOLELY due to religion post in the Other forum, although rating in the Other boards is now disabled this is still directly evident to someone rating based off of not liking myself.

I can't tell if this parody or not. You are Hemperor. You have bad karma. Nothing about that is surprising. (Also, the cA karma conspiracy is after you!)

Hemperor wrote:I thoroughly appreciate Derrick's constant work however I feel this system acheives nothing and if anything is only detrimental. I haven't seen a shard with better community support than this one, so why the need for the addition of something like this that really doesn't fit in the scopes of UO anyways? Word of mouth, "your name" count for a lot here and this has always worked... I don't see the need for a system where people can disabled others and make them look negative anonymously for no reason.

I agree with a lot of this, but I think the system would be fine with some small tweaks.

Hemperor wrote:Another thought, is this only encouraging the creation of more new never used forum accounts?

If Darkwing and Guardianknight are to be believed, [cA] will go to any length to "exploit" anything, but I seriously can't imagine anyone bothering to go through all that trouble to give someone else bad forum karma. Seems boring.

Forum Karma Pros and Cons:

Gives us a system to get a very rough picture of the community's opinion of players (PRO)

It is amusing (PRO)

May be tilted or abused--by cA of course! (CON)


It seems to me the considerations are that simple, though there is something to say in response to both. First, the very rough picture may be misleading or easily misunderstood by new players. They may, for instance, think that a person with a "good" reputation will not steal from them when in fact they may. Second, the abuse has little in the way of practical consequences, since forum karma has no effect in game nor will be taken too seriously by most players in forming opinions of one another.

So I guess the question is suggested by Hemperor's last remarks: What exactly is the forum karma system meant to accomplish? And does it do so? If not, could it do so with minor tweaks?

To add, since Derrick may make me eat my words, the purpose I outlined was what I felt was the obvious intentions, I haven't heard Derrick say anything about it. Personally, I can't see any other reason for it.

Hemperor wrote:I haven't heard Derrick say anything about it.

Subject: Reputation system for forums

Derrick wrote:To give some background on why we implemented this system: It's been desired by traders for some time, but there has never been a stable reputation system for phpBB; I've been looking for one for years. This one finally seems to fit the bill in terms of being production ready.

There's also an excessive amount of trolling in these forums, and the level at which staff will take action is pretty well known and skirted. I feel that a peer review system will help with this, and reduce some of the frustration that board admins and moderators feel about some of the postings in these forums.

It may work, it may not; but we're going to try it regardless. I do expect that it'll take a couple months to make any determination at all on whether this was a good idea.

We can continue to take good ideas on modifications to the system, but spitting on it is not going to be helpful at this time.

I don't think there's any reason to consider it a failure; it's been a very short period. The suggestions on tweaks are being heard though.

Perhaps make it so each person can only vote another person 1 time up or down and that is it. It would give a better consensus on how the community feels about another player. That way it prevents forum trolls from voting down the same people everyday using multiple old forum accounts *coughs* cA.

Allow people with negative karma to vote people up or down one time like everyone else. Get rid of being able to do +2, +3, +4, or +5. That allows troll squads to wield way to much power everyday as they keep voting each others accounts up and other people's accounts down.

Also before implementing new changes do a wipe of the damage that has been done and reset the karma system. The way it is now actually gives all the trolls the power since they usually have multiple accounts and use these accounts to upboost their own karma while obliterating others. If you get say 4 or 5 trolls with a couple accounts each who are friends the damage and power wielded by them using the karma system is insane especially when they get over 15 karma or so from boosting their own karma *coughs* cA *coughs*.