UO Second Age

WoozyRargar wrote:

Derrick wrote:Aye. This is why I don't want to make further changes unless we can close the book on this question forever. We've got 250+ real people that play daily on UOSA and are accustomed to how things work now. Taking the chance on a change on a hunch is something that happened once here I don't want to repeat that mistake. Often incorrect changes result in discovery of contradictory evidence shortly after implementation, causing utter chaos.

If in the beginning you had made it where debuffs always disrupted, I'm sure there would be people saying that it wasn't true to the original and to change it. They would be in the exact same situation we are in, fighting an uphill battle as there is currently no hard evidence to conclude debuffs DIDN'T disrupt. I've spent quite a bit of time searching in various places for anything related to either side's argument, and I've barely found anything besides what veterans "remember." If I found something conclusively proving us right or wrong, I'd come out with it.

I understand what you are saying about not wanting to rock the boat, but it's still disappointing. I'm fairly confident that people would be surprised by increased level of depth and quality of PvP (particularly in duels) and would adjust. Honestly, I think this change would really only affect upper tier PvP, since many players wouldn't put in the effort to maximizing the potential. Lower tier PvP, field fights, and everyone else would likely continue on business as usual for the most part.

Thank you for at least considering the change.

bOmb wrote: I think your wrong about who this would affect. Using debuff disrupts gives PKs a huge advantage over all

PvM chars without wrestling. Now, you have a fair chance to get away from a pk by recalling, with

this debuff disrupt, it would affect EVERY char on the shard without wrestling out of guards. Spamming or

loading a weaken only to use to disrupt a recall is how most people on other shards pk. This makes it

so that without wrestling, weaken could be the only spell casted while equiping weapons.

Arcanus wrote:I think one of the reasons why a few people don’t remember debuffs being used for consistent disruption is because harm was used in their place by many people. I strongly believe harm was a reliable disrupting spell during the era, not a crapshoot like it is here. The use of the harm spell was one of the first PvP lessons during the era; here, a large majority of the top PvPers do not use it because it fails so often.

I believe magic arrow also disrupted, but was not as widely used due to the damage delay. When used as an opener, it could potentially disrupt your next spell if it reflected off your target.

Needless to say, I am very skeptical of the way disrupts are implemented here with the magery/damage-based chance to disrupt.

“Can debuffs interrupt a spell casting sequence if cast on a person on which that debuff has already been applied?”
Yes, consistently, with a “fizzle” animation as described by Faust.

“Do debuffs interrupt if they are resisted?”
This question surprised me, because throughout my entire UO experience, disrupts being resistable wasn’t even a question or issue of contention; it just didn’t happen.

Please also let it be known that I am not motivated because I think I would gain some sort of competitive advantage if these changes were implemented. On the contrary, my guild and I have adapted to the odd spell and weapon mechanics here (don’t get me started on the other things) and consistently win tournaments and events.

Disrupts here are simply not accurate, but more importantly, dueling is just not very fun. On one hand, it would be nice to not reduce PvP to disrupts and weapon hits, but on the other, dueling now is incredibly myopic and dilutes much of the “player skill” factor. The way most duels go now with the current mechanics is: prep ebolt/fs/explo, katana, hally, release spell, lightning spam, hally. This is because you can’t rely on anything besides lightning for consistent disruption, and even that can be tricky depending on if the person knows how to fast cast.

I don't have any evidence on any of this except my memory. I honestly could care less what decision is made. The only reason I remember this so well is because I often used this tactic to disrupt and then follow up with gheal.

WoozyRargar wrote: First, wrestling has nothing to do with this as the change we are proposing (and believe is OSI T2A accurate) is for debuffs to always disrupt. This is not dependent on the defender's wrestling skill.

Now, considering what you're saying about giving a big advantage to PKs: I actually don't think it matters much at all. If someone is out PvMing or mining or whatever and a single PK comes and attacks him, then I submit that the PK is going to have a hard time killing him by spamming him with debuffs. The lone PK will eventually have to stop spamming debuffs and actually start casting damaging spells, giving the person time to Recall. Now, if instead a group of PKs come and attacks that same person, being able to Recall away is still very difficult for him to do due to being hit by a number of spells in quick succession.

Either way, I doubt people would have more or less trouble with PKs after they got used to the change and adapted to be more prepared for quick disrupts.

WoozyRargar wrote: Either way, I doubt people would have more or less trouble with PKs after they got used to the change and adapted to be more prepared for quick disrupts.

platy wrote:http://www.uo.com/downloads/Catpvpsf1hr.rm
http://www.uo.com/downloads/Catpvpfinalshr.rm
PROOF that debuff spams weren't used in UO:R OSI shards.. those r the best pvper's from catskills at the time in combat..
I too played Catskills crabjuice.. and as I remember your name I don't ever remember seeing you unfortunately.. I was Elminster in !K! and I definately remember nobody on OSI ever spammed debuffs.. this video proves people didn't even use this tactics a year later (and we all know UO:R style pvp is all about disrupts)

I too feel Arcanus hit it the closest.. certain spells were usually more guarunteed.. but tbh I get 12% harm damage here and don't see any problems with it.

Also I'm with Siv 100%.. i've been through soo many PVP changes here it's turning the best shard into something else..

Derrick you need to stop trying to please all the new players here, you built an extremely accurate and fun shard and there is nothing wrong with the PVP system.. There will ALWAYS be those who "remember" something different.. You've got experienced/veteran Devs and players.. trust in them..

Derrick wrote:
A question on the use of harm, why would anyone ever use harm to disrupt if weaken disrupted with 100% reliability?

Derrick wrote: A question on the use of harm, why would anyone ever use harm to disrupt if weaken disrupted with 100% reliability?