archery support template

[archaicsubrosa77]

You can find the speed now if you check those links I gave you.

Find the speed of the bows...match it to your stamina.

The whole weapon speed cap is being looked into. Everything now is just guess and rumor. Until we hear some in detail explainations that's all it will be.

[Soulace]

right, so with a regular bow and 100 stamina i'd shoot every 3.7 seconds..not 5.

[archaicsubrosa77]

sounds about right

[SighelmofWyrmgard]

There is some good advice here, and there is some advice that is less-good.

Some considerations that will hopefully help you better evaluate your options:

• If you are going to combine the use of two archery weapons, make it Heavy Xbow and Xbow, not Bow and something else: even at 100 Dex, you'd have to fire non-stop for well over a minute to realize the extra speed offered by bow v. Xbow, and the Xbow will consistently hit for marginally-higher damage; with a Heavy Xbow starter, intending to segue into using Xbow, all you have to carry is bolts.
• Magery (& Meditation) should be developed to certain "benchmark" levels, and combined with appropriate stats:
  • 25 (35) Magery, 0 Meditation, 25ish Int: Casting to Circle2 (Circle3); Scrolling to Circle 4 (Circle 5);
  • 65 (75) Magery, 50 Meditation, 50ish Int: Casting to Circle4 (Circle5); Scrolling to Circle 6 (Circle 7; Circle 8 is available, but expect fizzles);
  • 90 Magery, 50-75 Meditation, 50-100 Int: no-fizzle Casting to Circle6; no-fizzle Scrolling to Circle8; 0 Evaluate Intelligence means that magical damage-dealing pretty much has to come from summoning (BSs, EVs, Elementals/Daemons);
  • GM Magery with high Evaluate Intelligence and high Meditation: if you don't intend to develop ALL THREE, you might as well stick with the much-more-economical "90 Magery" complex described immediately above ...
• GM Magic Resist should be considered essential ONLY for "dedicated", or otherwise extensive, PvP; in a mostly-PvM environment, 75 is adequate;
• Similarly, if you absolutely have to short either Healing or Anatomy, short Anatomy if the character's playstyle is predominately PvP; if predominately PvM, short Healing instead.
• A very-little-bit (seriously: 20-25 real skill points) in Tracking can provide a variety of uses.

If you wish more-in-depth justification of any of the above, just ask.

SS

[archaicsubrosa77]

If he is going to invisible any reduction to fire time would be great not to mention he gets to draw aggro from the mobs on his opponent and should they stop to cast reveal he has that time to cycle and then switch back to melee weapons after firing.

And an Archery of 85 would suffice as it's easy to get a bow to push it to at least a hundred.
Low tracking is pretty much only good for finding a hidden character on screen if that. For an archer it would better serve as a radar.

People with stealth usually have tracking that low so they won't trip over another stealther right in front of them.
Or as stated just a minute ago if confronted with a stealther who just hid/invised on you to find them.

[SighelmofWyrmgard]

25 real-skill Tracking will translate into 35+ Ability (depending on stats), which provides range that is well off-screen: aside from "scanning" for hidden/invisible PCs in the immediate vicinity, and being able to mark them if they move under Stealth, you can detect & track mobiles from almost two screens away. I've found it useful to approach any hotspot from "outside", using Tracking on the way in: I've discovered murderers on-site while they are still off-screen and I doubt they even see my exit-stage-left "Kal Ort Por", unless they accidentally happen to charge in my direction while I'm in the process of casting; it's also great to discover the presence of anyone lurking near any of my houses, before I go anywhere near the door, or to ensure a player-vendor's house is empty before I make a big purchase.

I entertain absolutely no qualms about including 25 Tracking on any template: dedicated PvPers won't need it, Treasure Hunters and House-Locked Tinker-murderers will maybe do fine without it, but anyone else can enjoy a lot of mileage out of those 25 skill points..

SS

EDIT:

P.S. re: "any reduction to fire times": if it doesn't amount to a "tick", it doesn't exist.

SS

[Soulace]

Thanks sighel, the breakdown of magery into benchmarks is VERY useful. I will definitely be referencing that as i move forward. I can see what you mean about combining the heavy w/ it's faster counterpart...I can see how the whole strategy with archery is going to be more about timing of shots, rather than speed. Of course it all seems pretty hypothetical to me atm, need to start playing to get an better idea of what will or won't work for me.

The level of tracking will be easy to test as i'm training whatever build i arrive at. If i take tracking i definitely want it to be able to see several screens away.

Still pondering my build...torn between the two weapon dexxer and the archer mage. Probably just need to pick on and start playing, adjust it as necessary. Thanks for the help!

[SighelmofWyrmgard]

I sort-of exaggerated describing the difference in attack speeds: the point is, assuming you can enjoy a 1-tick-faster ROF out of a bow, it will still be 10+ complete attack cycles before that actually translates into an "extra" hit; so, more on the order of 30+ seconds of continuous fire ...

If we're talking about PvP, this sort of scenario is simply not going to happen much; also in PvP, the higher damage of Xbow over bow will often prove to be more significant because of heavier armor protecting the target.

One thing my "Ranger" does: Insta-shot with Heavy Xbow, cast Poison, arm regular Xbow (or melee weapon), and continue the fight; however, I'll point out that this is a PvM character performing PvM tactics.

I'll mention right now that, with the "maximum attack speed cap" the way it presently is, performing the above is not really critical and, in fact, if it weren't for the desire to cast Poison in-between shots, switching weapons would be rather dumb: my second Heavy Xbow hit would cycle faster than switching weapons + the firing delay ...

In 1v1 PvP, Hvy Xbow bolt --> Halberd swing can deliver a pair of extremely heavy hits but, any Dexxer with a shield is going to mitigate a lot of that damage; against the Hally Mage, the Heavy-Xbow opener comes nowhere near delivering the damage of the traditional Explode v. EBolt/FStrike ... I am merely pointing out that the build gains nothing in 1v1 PvP, while sacrificing quite a bit in both damage-mitigation (0 Parry), and spike damage-dealing (high Magery + Evaluate). Other people have pointed to the reasons why archery is no longer any good as a "finisher", either.

The flexibility can, however, be used with some vicious ferocity in group PvP. Off the top you remarked that you were aiming to provide a support character: this kind of build can be very useful, assuming everyone's expectations are reasonable, in a supporting role for group PvP as well as PvM.

Good luck. If I've been able to help, I am well-contented.

SS

[Soulace]

You have been a great help! you should feel very well-contented.
I'm still having trouble wrapping my mind around the maximum attack speed cap though...if someone could please break that down as simply as possible, i would be very appreciative.

here is a shotgun style brainstorming of templates. You don't necessarily have to comment, just wanted to throw out what i see my options are. Of course if anyone has input, it will be very welcome.

Not so sure on this one...magery might be uneccessarily high
Archery 80
Tactics100
Magery100
Meditation 80
Resist 90
Evaluating Intelligence 80
healing90
Anatomy 80

100str,
40 dex
85 int,


no eval economy mage
archery 80
tactics100
magery 90
med 85
resist 100
healing
anatomy 100
25 track

100 str
40 dex
85 int


heavy hitting mage archer, precast open up with x-bow finish with spells -wrestle included
Archery 80
tactics100
magery 100
meditation 95
eval int 100
wrestling 100
anatomy 100
25 track

100 str
40dex
85 int

No eval, lower med, utility only magery , dex archer
archery 80
tactics100
magery 70.1
50 meditation
resist 100
healing100
anatomy 100
swords/maces98.9

100 str
75 dex
50 int


Dex mace stamina drain, invis and use environment archer(thanks archaic, this build seems pretty stron in theory
Macing
Archery 80
Tactics
Anatomy
Healing
Magery 80
Resist
Tracking 40

100Str
75 Dex
50 Int

no magery archer/dexxer
Macing
Archery 80
Tactics
Anatomy
Healing
Resist
parry 95
tracking 25

100Str
100 Dex
25 Int

i can probably do this all day coming up with playstyles and scenarios...gotta think about these though. I am still liking the stamina drain idea as a support archer, also liking the heavy hitting opener, switch to spells...though as you've pointed out above that may not as efficient as a standard mage opener...dunno...

[archaicsubrosa77]

This is why there is a test server Soul...

make an account and test everything out.

Hopefully someone will be there to help explain how to set skills.

I like your first one though...that's a pretty original idea there
I forgot about how tracking can be higher then real . the mace temp is good too. I just liked how you juggled the skills in the first one

[Soulace]

Yar! i just discovered the test server. I hope to get in there and start trying these out very soon! thanks for helping get me this far archaic, and everyone else...greatly appreciated.

[SighelmofWyrmgard]

"Maximum Attack Speed Cap":

An Archer with 25 Dex should fire a Heavy Xbow no faster than once every 10ish seconds but, in fact, fires once every 5ish seconds; there has been some discussion as to whether this should be fixed but, hitherto, this has been nothing more than discussion.

SS