Inconsistencies (mainly graphical) with era screenshots

[nightshark]

blue potion

i've never used a greater agil/str here, but i looked at one of sandro's screens and they give +20? i carry vendor boughts and they do +10.

i thought it was weird that a regular (vendor bought) gives +10 here. my recollection from UOR was they gave +15 and +20. these screens suggest they gave the same bonus during t2a(+15,+20). anyone confirm this? or am i totally wrong?

[Rammar]

blue potion

Non-player made blue pots are not +15 here, they're +10. Honestly I'm not sure they should be, either. The following is the only source I could find.

Nov 4, 1999

Any and all potions are automatically ID'd for *everybody*. Buy
a potion from a player alchemist or his/her vendor. Or loot one off
another player. Guess what, that player made heal potion is already
ID'd, "a greater heal potion". As far as monster loot goes, those
potions are actually a different "strength" then the corresponding
"lesser" potion. Although a yellow potion may heal the same range as a
lesser heal, there are also such situations as "a blue potion", which
raises dexterity by 15, whereas the player made equivalents raise dex by
10 or 20, never 15.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... 20f2595650

[nightshark]

blue potion

Non-player made blue pots are not +15 here, they're +10. Honestly I'm not sure they should be, either. The following is the only source I could find.

Nov 4, 1999

Any and all potions are automatically ID'd for *everybody*. Buy
a potion from a player alchemist or his/her vendor. Or loot one off
another player. Guess what, that player made heal potion is already
ID'd, "a greater heal potion". As far as monster loot goes, those
potions are actually a different "strength" then the corresponding
"lesser" potion. Although a yellow potion may heal the same range as a
lesser heal, there are also such situations as "a blue potion", which
raises dexterity by 15, whereas the player made equivalents raise dex by
10 or 20, never 15.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... 20f2595650

Wow, awesome find. During early UO:R I would always buy "blue potions" from NPC vendors, which I'm certain were giving me +15 (+5 dex wasn't reason enough to buy kegs of blue, unless I was feeling rich), so this matches with that memory.

[Rammar]

Also, the earliest image of +11 to stats that I could find was 0971 (see 0970 for original stats).
http://download.uosecondage.com/ChesieS ... ap0971.jpg

I've narrowed that one down to between Jan 19, 1999 (0946 has leather with maker's mark) and somewhere around May 25, 1999 (1000 still has someone carrying a stack of the second bandage type and 1008/1016 are most likely auto-stacked).
http://download.uosecondage.com/ChesieS ... ap0946.jpg
http://download.uosecondage.com/ChesieS ... ap1000.jpg
http://download.uosecondage.com/ChesieS ... ap1008.jpg
http://download.uosecondage.com/ChesieS ... ap1016.jpg

[Populus]

http://download.uosecondage.com/ChesieS ... AP0946.JPG

What's this?

"r sleeves sewn by
h"

[fooka03]

leather or studded leather sleeves sewn by someone

well that's a different makers mark...

[Rammar]

leather or studded leather sleeves sewn by someone

well that's a different makers mark...

Yeah. Further back I posted an image for a different smithy makers mark as well. Specifically, these excluded the "exceptional" nonsense if the item was marked (it was a pre-requisite, so redundant). I don't think these were changed until the Nov 23, 1999 MAKER'S MARK patch. Further confirmation:

Jul 2, 1999

When I hit 99.9, I was like - Oh God, just one more. About 20 minutes
later I became a grandmaster. I made a studded tunic and, bam, I hit
100.0. I checked if the tunic was marked, it wasn’t. So I figured
whatever exceptional item I made next would be marked. I made a cloak,
clicked it and saw “a cloak sewn by Giorgio Armani”. I’ve saved both of
these items as well, the tunic that I hit 100.0 on and my first marked
item.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... 329a90d3b2

Maker's marks (and exceptional indicators) were apparently changed several times, if i get a few minites I'll try to scrape together a timeline.

[nightshark]

bump for proven +11 stats/+15 vendor bought pots and identified (player made) potions

[Sandro]

Also, the earliest image of +11 to stats that I could find was 0971 (see 0970 for original stats).
http://download.uosecondage.com/ChesieS ... ap0971.jpg

I've narrowed that one down to between Jan 19, 1999 (0946 has leather with maker's mark) and somewhere around May 25, 1999 (1000 still has someone carrying a stack of the second bandage type and 1008/1016 are most likely auto-stacked).
http://download.uosecondage.com/ChesieS ... ap0946.jpg
http://download.uosecondage.com/ChesieS ... ap1000.jpg
http://download.uosecondage.com/ChesieS ... ap1008.jpg
http://download.uosecondage.com/ChesieS ... ap1016.jpg

Also note the quantity of lich corpses. Either a fairly quick spawn or more than 1 spawned at a time. #1000

[Kaivan]

Thanks for bumping this, I'll address some of the issues on the last page.

-------

First, it is distinctly possible that stats did change by +/- 11 points. At the moment, we are using the stratics archive of the Resisting spells page which explains the spell resistance process, and discusses the stat buff and debuff information at the bottom. While it is possible that this is an error on their part, it is a pretty blatant and hard to miss error (unlike the error with katana speed). If at all possible, some more evidence on this subject would be greatly appreciated (I have looked for some and found a lack of information).

-------

Second, with respect to potions, the demo does confirm +15 stats for store bought potions. Also, there is confirmation that potions were auto-identified at one point during T2A, probably right up until the Taste ID changes on November 23. The Alchemy bugs section of the archived stratics page suggest that taste ID is useless (please keep in mind that many of the bugs on that page are bugs that were fixed during the era before our cutoff date, despite the archive date of the page in question). This is the quote in question:

# Taste ID Useless:

* Problem:
* Taste ID serves no purpose in the game since potions are now automatically identified. It should be removed or revised.
* Solution: The Proposed Changes page contains some suggestions to make this skill useful.
* Until then: Pretend like it doesn't exist.
* Action Taken: (none)

However, on that same token, the stratics page on potion kegs has some information about potion kegs that was in testing at the time that the page was written (early November 99). This page, which contains information directly from the devs, suggests that under the new changes, both potions and kegs had an owner and taster list that allowed players to know what the contents of the potion or keg is. The quotes in question are as follows:

If I share a home with a person and make a barrel of a potion, can he just fill a bottle knowing I made a greater heal one? Will it be a greater heal to him? To my secondary characters?
--As it says on the website, they need to taste id it to know what kind of potion barrel it is (or taste id the potion)

-SunSword [posted on the CoB Dev. Board]

If you your warrior has not identified it, he can still take potions from it, the potions will just say "a yellow potion". But they will still be greater heals.

-Calandryll [posted on the CoB Dev. Board]

Also, on another related note, the archived stratics page on creating potion kegs gives us the failure message when a player attempts to create a potion keg, and fails to do so. The message is:

"You crack the [lid, keg, tap] while attempting to construct the keg, making it useless."

Where [lid, keg, tap] probably means (although by no means guaranteed) that one of the pieces may be destroyed on a failed attempt.

--------

Finally, with respect to exceptional weapons, there is some information out there that is akin to a "publish that wasn't labeled as a publish" that explains the discrepancies surrounding this information. An FYI update on the OSI website labeled as the December 8th, Publish contains this line item:

The [exceptional] tag will be removed and replaced with a new system of marking exceptional items. As an example, an exceptional katana made by a non-Grandmaster smith or made by a Grandmaster smith who chooses not to put his makers mark, will now say, "a katana of exceptional quality". An exceptional katana made by a Grandmaster smith who chooses to place his maker’s mark on it will say, "a katana crafted with exceptional quality by..." This will be true for all exceptional items.

This information was likely placed into the patch notes after the new system came into place a couple of weeks later, detailing the new system as a whole.

The above [exceptional] system likely existed for only a short while on OSI servers, namely from the introduction of the exceptional bonus on 11/23 until this patch on 12/8. From the available information, we can build a time line that shows the progression of exceptional quality naming schemes:

Pre-T2A: Exceptional items do exist, however they do not have any naming convention to indicate that they are higher quality than normal equipment (confirmed on demo and by later patch).

Early T2A (1998): Grandmaster marked items begin appearing for blacksmiths and bowcrafters. These items do not receive the [exceptional] tag. These items are detailed in this patch note:

# When a grandmaster blacksmith crafts an exceptional item, the item will have a "maker's mark"--its name will have "crafted by (name)" appended to it.
# It will be possible to craft exceptional and below average quality bows, crossbows, and heavy crossbows. These will have differing damages just like exceptional quality smithed weapons do. In addition, they will have maker's marks if they are exceptional and are crafted by grandmaster bowyers.

Early T2A (February 1999): Tailors now begin crafting exceptional armor and clothing and receive the same markers mark bonus at GM skill as blacksmiths and bowcrafters. The system specifically says sewn for tailored items, while blacksmith items and (presumably) bowcrafted items would say crafted. No tailoring or blacksmith item receives the [exceptional] tag (as per the screenshot). These items are detailed in this patch note:

# It will be possible to craft exceptional quality items and below-average quality items.
# Exceptional items made by a grandmaster tailor will carry a maker's mark.

Late T2A (November 1999): All crafting skills receive an update allowing for exceptional quality items. It is during this short period of time that exceptional items, marked and unmarked, would receive the [exceptional] tag.

Late T2A (December 1999): The crafting tags are overhauled, producing the system that is recorded in the patch notes.

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Hope this helps clear up some of the information that's been discussed on the last page.

[nightshark]

Kaivan, if you read the last 2 pages we nailed the +-11 stats down to somewhere between Feb '99-May '99. It's evident because there are loads of screenshots between those timeframes where he has +11 to all stats.

[nightshark]

Also, the earliest image of +11 to stats that I could find was 0971 (see 0970 for original stats).
http://download.uosecondage.com/ChesieS ... ap0971.jpg

I've narrowed that one down to between Jan 19, 1999 (0946 has leather with maker's mark) and somewhere around May 25, 1999 (1000 still has someone carrying a stack of the second bandage type and 1008/1016 are most likely auto-stacked).
http://download.uosecondage.com/ChesieS ... ap0946.jpg
http://download.uosecondage.com/ChesieS ... ap1000.jpg
http://download.uosecondage.com/ChesieS ... ap1008.jpg
http://download.uosecondage.com/ChesieS ... ap1016.jpg

Also note the quantity of lich corpses. Either a fairly quick spawn or more than 1 spawned at a time. #1000

yeah i noticed those rooms in deciet spawn liches very slow - the one in 1000 and the one to the north of that. if you kill 1-2 of them, they seem to just completely stop spawning for a long time. i used to hunt in those rooms quite a lot on OSI and the spawn was much faster than here.

[Faust]

The two alternating lich spawns in Deceit level 3 and 4 were pretty much instant as was the Lich Lord Room.

[marmalade]

bump for this thread (screenshots in OP and others need addressing).

[Sir Rellik]

Looks like the air elemental's loot dropped in a bag?