mini-heal/interupt patch kill 1v1 tank mage pvp??

[Choppa X]

I never said I want debuffs to be able to be casted over and over to disrupt. What I DO think should occur is debuffs disrupting 100% on the first cast. They should not be able to be recasted on the same person over and over to disrupt. That was the point of debuffs, saving them for when you needed them for a 100% disrupt quickly. Not to be spammed over and over to wait for the hally refresh.

PS
This thread is about the mini heal damage being way too high, not about interrupts. I was merely stating another bad thing in mage pvp. What is the point of having very high mini heals when the spells are so slow? And yes, a 11-14 heal range is way too high.

[Faust]

I wasn't the one that brought up spell interruption...

You and your guild complained to no end about spells and debuffs not interrupting everytime when you arrived here at Second Age. Now you want debuffs to go back to the way they were when you arrived....

Again, where was your complaint about mini heal before May '09 for the half year you were playing here on a pvp system that was much slower compared to now? We are using the same value that was used back then now.

[Tal]

It seems there is only one way to resolve this.....

[Mirage]

I know this is a lot to ask from Derrick and the staff but maybe it's time to put the 'player/researcher' on the backburner and let the players play and the developers develope. I realize a lot of the research is done by players, but when I go back and look through the "Era Accuracy/Suggestion" forum it's a large majority of people suggesting things that they want changed to cater to their personal playing experience.

Sorry, this will never happen simply because Derrick would not sacrifice the credibility of his t2a replica shard policies to please one specific group of players. Read the front page of the web site and this same statement is clear as can be on there. This type of approach is what lead to the incorrect change of the heal spell in the first place. I was a major supporter of lowering the "in mani" heal spell effective rate because we had no data on the spell at that time.

The spell is sitting at the same value that it was before the patch that changed in May '09 and there was no where near the amount of complaints during that whole time for well over an entire year like there is now. This was even during a much slower pvp environment that made the spell IMMENSELY stronger than it is at this very moment.

We are no longer using the demo value of 11-16 and instead using the Stratics value of 11-14. There is documentation that the spell changed sometime after the demo for obvious reasons. The confirmed date of the 11-14 value goes from modern UO all the way back to '01. We believe that this value is correct for the era until proven otherwise. If you believe this isn't the case please come forth with some information to support the claim.

This shard aims to replicate the t2a era the best possible way under the current technical difficulties, not cater to specific interest groups that prefer personal opinions over the stated goals for this shard.

Honestly I don't know how your response has anything to do with what I posted and you quoted. You're quoting me (to sum it up). Let the players play and stop reasearching, and let the developers develop and do their job rather than people like you, hemp, etc. doing your reasearch on each and every little thing you guys want to see changed. My post had nothing to do with doing away with era accuracy or the integrity of the shard. Your posts in my eyes are really just looking like pointless assaults anymore to start arguments, and half the time I wonder if you read what other people write.

Example:

Debuffs should not disrupt constantly. That is a game mechanic in a UO system that never existed in the real game. This only exists in your fake little RunUO world that you think is so great since that is the only thing you are familiar with in this game.[/quote]

You keep bringing up that the value was the same a whole year ago, but you then forget all of the other changes that have been since then....as if they didn't effect pvp at all and every single mechanic is the same as it was in May 09. It's not, the pvp has changed since then. Have you dueled with the current system? Watched a 1v1 tourney? Fielded at all recently? These are questions I have to ask because it doesn't seem so since all the people whom do all of these dislike the changes and you on the other hand think they are positive for the pvp here.

[Hemperor]

I think any conclusive work (research) done by ANY player is welcomed by Derrick, there are just far far too many things for him to cover and he'd never end up with any time to code them.

[Clyde-]

Yeah mini heal may have been this way back in may of 09, however, there were many other pvp mechanics that were different at the time as well. I have played pretty consistenly for the past year on here and i cant tell you how many freakin changes i've had to become accustomed with. Back in May i can garuntee you no one bitched about mini heal because there were other mechanics that balanced it out. Never in the whole time that i've played here have i had such a problem trying to kill even the simplest pvper due to one fact: Mini heal dominates 98% of all combos. You literally have to catch someone making a mistake (idk how since mini heal spam is the most basic reaction) and landing high end damage spells consistenly while landing good hally shots. Even then it's still hard as shit and depletes most of your mana trying to kill them. I mean if you think about it, when you get a nice hally shot and drop a 14 dmg ebolt followed by a 12 dmg ebolt and when you look at their health they're already almost to full while spending little mana, it's just retarded. Disrupts are perfectly fine now imo, but the fact that disrupts dont even matter due to one fact, mini heal overcomes, is just...well it's not even remotely fun anymore.

[Faust]

Mirage aka Syntax,

You act like you even know the story behind the change to the heal "in mani" spell as if it was some HUGE conspiracy that was fabricated by me. Do you realize that it wasn't me complaining about how it's impossible to heal now since people can harm, harm, harm, hit, and repeat? There were more whiners and complainers before the change that the heal spell was too weak than there is now. Batlin recently decompiled the ENTIRE demo here about a month ago... This was before the in mani change that I suggested previously to reduce the effect of it was implemented. Now that we have code to compare with current OSI values/patches it's much easier to pin point how something worked during this era.

I pointed out the value for the heal spell inside the demo code and CLEARLY stated that it was very high. I later determined that the spell was slightly reduced sometime after that last decompilation of the demo in '98 since modern UO uses a current value of 11-14 that dates all the way back to '01 meaning the change took place anywhere from late '98 all the way up to that time point... Derrick ended up going with this value since it could very well have been changed during the time period of this era since it could go both ways in all honesty. I had absolutely NOTHING to do with this change besides STATE what something was from one point to the next in specific eras.

There was whining when it was too low before it was changed and the same crap when it was made too high. Now that the spell was adjusted to be closer towards the middle back to where it was before any change you still gripe and complain.

Please stop bringing up that stupid comment about how different it was before May '09. The fact still reamins that PVP was SLOWER during that time period, which obvioulsy would make the spell MORE powerful for any person with the slightest bit of intelligence when it comes to time ratio and effect with values.

It does not matter what the pvp is like in my opinion or anyone else for that matter. I have never been a fan of "in mani" spams for healing. Why do you think that I suggested that the spell was more than likely very low during the era since no one used it that during the era? We had no data on the spell for the time period and it was a common consensus among most players. Now that we have data that was very close to the era we can better pin point what it really was... I was wrong about the lower value even though it was better in my opinon in a way. I think it would be great if the value was slightly lower but a little higher than what it was previously. However, my opinion means absolutely nothing since all that matters is era accuracy not balance or further development based on opinions.

The fact still remains that this shard is about era accuracy not how you, anyone, or me think a game mechanic should properly function correctly.

[Hiram]

I'm with Faust and Hemperor on this one; the stated goal is era accuracy. The best way to do this is to implement mechanics the best we can to the best of our knowledge. When our knowledge improves, our accuracy improves. Whether this affects PvP drastically is a secondary concern.

Anyone who enjoys this server should be thankful for the digging that people do to pinpoint era accuracies. Whether or not they were researching to further their agenda or their particular style of game play does not matter, because implementations are not based solely on the word of people doing the digging; there is generally proof that drives the changes through.

If you don't think PvP mechanics are the same way they were then, try to prove it! If you can, they will be changed. If you don't like the PvP mechanics, but can't find anything technically wrong with them accuracy wise, then realize that the mechanics will not change unless our knowledge of the mechanics does.

[Faust]

No one here has pointed out the inconsistency that Razor produces to influence the effectiveness of the "in mani" heal spell here yet. Since there is a hotkey that can skip the use of a target unlike back in the day it helps speed up the healing process significantly. This is only one of the many reasons the spell is more effective here.

[Mirage]

Mirage aka Syntax,

You act like you even know the story behind the change to the heal "in mani" spell as if it was some HUGE conspiracy that was fabricated by me. Do you realize that it wasn't me complaining about how it's impossible to heal now since people can harm, harm, harm, hit, and repeat? There were more whiners and complainers before the change that the heal spell was too weak than there is now. Batlin recently decompiled the ENTIRE demo here about a month ago... This was before the in mani change that I suggested previously to reduce the effect of it was implemented. Now that we have code to compare with current OSI values/patches it's much easier to pin point how something worked during this era.

I pointed out the value for the heal spell inside the demo code and CLEARLY stated that it was very high. I later determined that the spell was slightly reduced sometime after that last decompilation of the demo in '98 since modern UO uses a current value of 11-14 that dates all the way back to '01 meaning the change took place anywhere from late '98 all the way up to that time point... Derrick ended up going with this value since it could very well have been changed during the time period of this era since it could go both ways in all honesty. I had absolutely NOTHING to do with this change besides STATE what something was from one point to the next in specific eras.

There was whining when it was too low before it was changed and the same crap when it was made too high. Now that the spell was adjusted to be closer towards the middle back to where it was before any change you still gripe and complain.

Please stop bringing up that stupid comment about how different it was before May '09. The fact still reamins that PVP was SLOWER during that time period, which obvioulsy would make the spell MORE powerful for any person with the slightest bit of intelligence when it comes to time ratio and effect with values.

It does not matter what the pvp is like in my opinion or anyone else for that matter. I have never been a fan of "in mani" spams for healing. Why do you think that I suggested that the spell was more than likely very low during the era since no one used it that during the era? We had no data on the spell for the time period and it was a common consensus among most players. Now that we have data that was very close to the era we can better pin point what it really was... I was wrong about the lower value even though it was better in my opinon in a way. I think it would be great if the value was slightly lower but a little higher than what it was previously. However, my opinion means absolutely nothing since all that matters is era accuracy not balance or further development based on opinions.

The fact still remains that this shard is about era accuracy not how you, anyone, or me think a game mechanic should properly function correctly.

I never said that the change or the formula was fabricated. The fact remains this, actually, that as fast as you think PvP is now it's VERY HARD to die 1v1 to people. No matter how "fast" you think this PvP is it doesn't matter because a slow-twitch muscled newb doesn't even have to spam mini heal "fast" because of how unbalanced it is now. I'll stop bringing up all the mechanic changes that have happened since May 09 when you stop bringing up the fact that no one was bitching in May 09 about it being the same value as it is now, deal?

[Mirage]

No one here has pointed out the inconsistency that Razor produces to influence the effectiveness of the "in mani" heal spell here yet. Since there is a hotkey that can skip the use of a target unlike back in the day it helps speed up the healing process significantly. This is only one of the many reasons the spell is more effective here.

You don't need razor for mini heal to be effective.

[Faust]

Who said that you did?

[Derrick]

The best way to do this is to implement mechanics the best we can to the best of our knowledge. When our knowledge improves, our accuracy improves. Whether this affects PvP drastically is a secondary or even tertiary concern.

This is exactly the development approach we take here. Additionally, it's worth stating that whether I personally like or dislike the changes is a secondary concern, I have implemented many things that I wish I had not found to be correct.

The underlying belief of the shard is that if we make the mechanics perfectly correct than it's going to be thrilling and fun; however, as we've approached this goal we've taken things in and out of balance due to offsetting inaccuracies at times. It's a huge continuing work to make this thing correct; and that we're still making major mechanics changes 3 years into UOSA development, while somewhat shocking even to me, only speaks to the enormous complexity of the shard, and of the game.

If it's not fun, we must have missed something, but to take mechanics that are founded on evidence and replace them with guess work will undermine what we've done over the last three years.

[Mirage]

Who said that you did?

What are you referring to?

[Faust]

Hrm, you make a comment about me reading posts?

You said that you don't need Razor for the heal spell to be effective...

I said "Who said you did?" in my response to that comment...

I don't know how it could be any clearer than that.