Please don't remove guild chat, here's why.

[benny-]

Good replies Faust. I suppose my stance is that many players here feel like some of the major issues here (in this place events) have been given up on and thus, accepted as part of the server. Especially when we see such things defended and justified (as such in this thread). When smaller features which have less impact are proposed for removal it seems a bit hypocritical.

Remove party and guild chat, but I think if we're going to continue on with the concept of accuracy before convenience, many of the major issues should be revisited.

[Faust]

Here is the simple solution for anyone that questions inaccuracy...

Question: Did <insert topic> exist in Ultima Online?
Answer: <insert answer>

Question: Did <insert game mechanic based on topic> exist on all production shards in Ultima Online?
Answer: <insert answer>

If you can validate the first and the second answer the issue falls under era accuracy.. However, if you can validate the first but not the second it would be considered a policy decision... I don't think these terms could be put into a more simple way in all honesty.

Also, the reason more small issues are resolved quicker is because it's easier... the major issues typically are a lot harder to work on and slow the pace of accuracy to a stand still at times. However, this doesn't necessarily mean it's less important though. This is definitely something very important to me. I just understand from a programmers perspective that it's just much easier to work on the smaller issues than anything else when it comes to Derrick's work here.

[Pirul]

I just understand from a programmers perspective that it's just much easier to work on the smaller issues than anything else when it comes to Derrick's work here.

Absolutely and very understandable. However, the big, important changes are not being touched because the small, easy ones are being corrected. If you had to prioritze all the changes UOSA had to make to be completely era accurate in order of importance, size and urgency, where would guild chat fall? Right at the top? Doubtful. Yet since it is more "convenient" to correct it first it goes to the top of the list, and the big important ones get relegated. Why have patches every week, or every two weeks to correct some small issues? Why isn't it possible to have no patches during a month or six weeks while the important stuff gets done?

Just as saying that "pointing out inaccurate things and saying they are a valid reason to leave other inaccurate things in the game isnt a valid argument" and "you (SIC) argument continues to be invonvenience and events~ both arent good arguments", are valid arguments, why isn't "hit accuracy on the big issues first, then accuracy on the small issues will be a non-issue" also one? Because it's more "convenient"?

[Derrick]

It's not really right to the top of the list, we've been discussing this for well over a year. It's actually an example of something that has gotten put off indefinately because I have had more "seemingly" bigger fish to fry, or at least easier fish to fry.

It came up to change in last patch because it was about time we dealt with it, which was the idea behind the last patch, do all the stuff that'd been put off for ages.

[BlackFoot]

Just as saying that "pointing out inaccurate things and saying they are a valid reason to leave other inaccurate things in the game isnt a valid argument" and "you (SIC) argument continues to be invonvenience and events~ both arent good arguments", are valid arguments, why isn't "hit accuracy on the big issues first, then accuracy on the small issues will be a non-issue" also one? Because it's more "convenient"?

They aren't valid arguments. Last point has been addressed above.

[Kublai Khan]

False, Trinsic undead invasion was automated for all servers.

Oops, yea I see the error in my post. I meant to say shard-widee events like trinsic invasion as well as events of any sort. I knew of many that happened on Lake Superior but they were never trammelized. And silver didn't exist till factions.

*edited the rest of my post cause it was too much flame towards the trammie IRC tournament bank sitters we have on this shard.

The Trinsic undead invasion ended. The events on UOSA are always the same, automated, and they never end. The Trinsic undead invasion didn't give out blessed black sandals or black dye tubs either. Those events during T2A weren't in trammel. (point being they didn't give silver to exchange for blessed tribal masks or unique rares either)

[Corbin]

The Trinsic undead invasion ended. The events on UOSA are always the same, automated, and they never end. The Trinsic undead invasion didn't give out blessed black sandals or black dye tubs either. Those events during T2A weren't in trammel. (point being they didn't give silver to exchange for blessed tribal masks or unique rares either)

Without the silver system, there would be no way to include items that were in T2A, but gotten by bugs unless there were other systems brought in to replace it which would be as equally inaccurate.

[nightshark]

Without the silver system, there would be no way to include items that were in T2A, but gotten by bugs unless there were other systems brought in to replace it which would be as equally inaccurate.

not true

and forgive me if i'm wrong (i dont participate in events or the "silver system"), but doesnt the silver system ensure that more copies of these items can be made at any time? era accurate? _b

imo black dye tubs should legitimately be given out once, like they were in xmas '98, and then left alone for time to sort them out. i never got a black dye tub in '98 and it was never attainable for me (i wasn't much of a gold farmer), until the vet rewards came out in '01 or '02 or whenever. era accuracy should be the same - doesn't matter if it's "fair" to everyone, it's just how it was.

if you look at the events system from an outside perspective like mine - as someone who does not participate - they just seem completely ridiculous and have absolutely NOTHING to do with the game "ultima online"

[BlackFoot]

Make a thread about the event system. That way the thread about guild chat could stay on topic about guild chat.

[Faust]

The Trinsic undead invasion ended. The events on UOSA are always the same, automated, and they never end. The Trinsic undead invasion didn't give out blessed black sandals or black dye tubs either. Those events during T2A weren't in trammel. (point being they didn't give silver to exchange for blessed tribal masks or unique rares either)

Did you bother to read my response to era accuracy/policy just four posts above your post that I am responding to at this very moment?

You are trying to argue era accuracy for something that isn't possible to argue since it's something that can't be replicated in the first place.

[Kublai Khan]

After reading the recent patch where Derrick discussed this:

"This patch was inspired by this thread viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18463 in an attempt to catch up on a lot of the little stuff that's been pending for ages. Due to time constraints not everything that was hoped to be included got in. Guild Chat and Parties were on the chopping block for this patch, but didn't make it; these two will almost certainly be removed in the next patch "

Please hear me out.

I understand guild chat is inaccurate. But let's think about this for a second.

Right now we have inaccurate automated events that run everyday sucking people out of the game to go play another completely different game. We have CTF, tournaments, DD, the PVM event that bards win(so imbalanced and inaccurate because it's free gold with no risk of being pked or losing your loot to the monsters).

Ect.

I don't believe removing guild chat is going to help the shard at all, being accurate is nice but is this really neccesary? You are forcing people to use IRC, ICQ and other forms of communication that take them outta the game.

Like I said it's bad enough that events are stealing our players and events are also causing our player-base to be spoiled and forget what UO is about. You have created UOR in our fine shard, people are obsessing over items that you gain with silver grinding and now you're trying to remove guild chat?

Here's my proposal: Keep guild chat if we keep events.

If you remove guild chat, you MUST remove all automated events.

Why split up the community even more? Guild chat is wonderful it's so newbies can jump in without getting ICQ or IRC. Not everyone uses it, and people are going to log on less if they lose simple conviences like not having to boot up IRC. In my opinion IRC is not even a good place for a newbie, it's mostly off-topic trash talk by the shard's celebrities. And it's annoying to open.

Remember this isn't 1998. This shard has a couple hundred players on at a time, that means a bigger % of players are unsavory and the amount of pks is far greater here than OSI. People need communication in-game, this server can at times seem more hardcore than OSI.

Newbies need guild chat more than ever.....please don't scrap this. It's so minor.

Please make this exception Derrick....and if you can't please get rid of events. It's just totally wrong to screw over newbies but then give all the trash talking pvp vets that obsess over items their 1000's of automated tournaments so they don't have to log into the game and interact with people.

Blackfoot, this is on topic with what the author is basing his arguement off of. Carefully read the quote from above and you will see that the author of this thread wants to make guild chat an exception to era accuracy just like the automated tournaments. He wants tournaments to go if guild chat does and I feel the same. This is the reason the author started with the subject "Please don't remove guild chat, here's why.".

[SirChandestroy]

imo black dye tubs should legitimately be given out once, like they were in xmas '98, and then left alone for time to sort them out. i never got a black dye tub in '98 and it was never attainable for me (i wasn't much of a gold farmer), until the vet rewards came out in '01 or '02 or whenever. era accuracy should be the same - doesn't matter if it's "fair" to everyone, it's just how it was.

Black Dye Tubs came in before X-Mas 98 through the FUSE trick. A friend of mine made a couple dozen of them and made a lot of gold selling them.

For real accuracy with the tub, there were two types in this era. The difference between the two is that the ones obtained through FUSE could be ruined by using dyes on them and changing the color, while the ones given as gifts could not have their color changed (a later patch fixed the FUSE types ones so that they were the same as the ones given as gifts).

[Faust]

When will any of you realize that this server ONLY replicates game mechanics?

The events on production shards were not universal from one shard to the next making it impossible to replicate in the first place. Game mechanics and the code(what we are replicating) that made them were universal from one shard to the next.

You can only replicate a UNIVERSAL system that took place on ALL the different servers. You can replicate every event that happened on each production shard but it still wouldn't be a replica in reality since one event didn't happen on the other shard. There is no possible way to replicate the events that happened on production shards, it's that simple.

If you want to go back to the same time period to have the same experiences socially, physically, and mentally on whatever shard you played than I would highly suggest that you build a time machine.

Until that day happens you must understand that replicating events is impossible one way or the other making this subject ridiculous to argue to begin with.

- If you replicate the events on each OSI production shard it's not accurate.
- If you make up your own events on this shard it's not accurate.
- If you don't replicate any events.. guess what... it's still not accurate.

No matter what way you look at this ITS STILL NOT ACCURATE. The only way it would be accurate in regard to events is if you made this UO Second Age : <insert OSI production shard name here> and this is a fact.

The events are a policy decision, not era accuracy.

Get it straight.

[benny-]

That's easily debatable....

I started a new thread on the debate about events as this one has been derailed enough.

http://forum.uosecondage.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18944

[BlackFoot]

Blackfoot, this is on topic with what the author is basing his arguement off of. Carefully read the quote from above and you will see that the author of this thread wants to make guild chat an exception to era accuracy just like the automated tournaments. He wants tournaments to go if guild chat does and I feel the same. This is the reason the author started with the subject "Please don't remove guild chat, here's why.".

So this entire 13 page thread was based off a bad argument to begin with.
Pointing to one thing and saying 'because this is era innacurate, it shoudl be ok for these things to be era inaccurate too.'

very obviously, a bad arguement.

'Because we have guild chat which is era in accurate, we should have left in the new crafting menus'
'Because we have guild chat which is era inaccurate, we should have left in customizable vendors.'
''Because we have guild chat which is era in accurate, we should have left in newbie bank checks'

How can people seriously continue to make this argument page after page?