.

[iamreallysquall]

Shard was fine with events, Derrick isnt changing anything other then fixing the "exploits," then im sure events will be back. But at the pace things get done around here it might not be for years. This Lelouche guy has really helped ruin the server. I will give him one thing, he has really influenced a major aspect of this server and its population but pointing out what he did about the automated events. All of us vets knew of these small bugs, but they mattered so little in the grand scheme of things, so whoever told him about them made a bad mistake. But w/e im still banned so idk.





Free Beatingu

no one told me anything me and i been on this shard longer then you lol , what does this have to do with the proposed ideas in this thread any way , go make a thread about this or post in two threads about what you are talking about.

[Kaivan]

This is getting completely out of hand. Several things need to be set straight.

First and foremost, many of the events being talked about here are almost identical to their counterparts on OSI, despite claims to the contrary. As an example, the fact that Easter bunnies run around and drop easter eggs is identical to the 1998 and 2001 holidays. The exact same thing happened both years (albeit with different colors). The only difference is that we've included our own non-automated quest on top of that, which is perfectly normal to do. On top of that, the prizes that were given out (although sizable) are not out of line with similar in-era events. In fact, we can look at the Stratics Time Vault page, which shows that on several servers, unique events took place only on that server for certain holidays (in addition to other unique events), and that unique prizes were handed out as a result. The fact that this occurred allows us to do this for holiday events as well.

Second, the fact that items are spawned on Second Age using an automated system is a non-argument. OSI had the ability to spawn items randomly on creatures (how do you think that all randomly generated items spawned?), in addition to the ability to spawn the creatures in specialized locations. The fact that it was done differently than it is done here is a non-issue.

Finally, the fact that we have had an established system for doing things is not a relevant issue. The fact of the matter is that we could argue this particular point for a number of mechanics that have not been corrected since the creation of the server, and it would be just as valid an argument to leave those mechanics alone as it would be to introduce another permanent inaccuracy.

On one last note, I will mention something very important. The issue in this thread is not the existence of silver (although that is another debatable subject for different reasons and scopes), but the concept of handing it out as a permanent addition to spawns in the game. It is unrealistic to suggest that we should have this, because there is no comparative circumstance where this occurred on OSI servers.

[TheBreadMan]

Coal for everyone this year I think!!

[Lagrath]

Finally, the fact that we have had an established system for doing things is not a relevant issue. The fact of the matter is that we could argue this particular point for a number of mechanics that have not been corrected since the creation of the server, and it would be just as valid an argument to leave those mechanics alone as it would be to introduce another permanent inaccuracy.

This is a complete evasion of the entire discussion. You can't just say "X is not a relevant issue" when it's the crux of the entire area people are looking to improve, or just go "it's just as valid to leave things exactly as they are as it would be changing it to something completely different despite the numerous particular reasons people have mentioned for altering it further because...well, just because." That's what those statements boil down to...just saying something sweeping and broad like that doesn't make it true

It all comes down to this:

Silver dropping on all mobs randomly across the board - less unique custom items being created than what is currently in place, yet more fair for all play types.

We have a system in place currently, and we are discussing a vastly better, more fun, more equitable system of getting to the exact same destination. Simple as that. That's not only worth discussing, but maybe even necessary considering the flaws of how things are currently done (even if the goal is great). It's especially important considering the massive changes in silver availability, reward costs, server events, etc. that have rollercoaster'd along in the history of this server.

The only thing that's NOT relevant is the main "argument" that's pushed by most of the people in this thread who have chimed in against the proposal- the idea that it's bad simply because that's not how it was done on the OSI servers, when the current system of tournaments and special events are anyway already just a rickety, patchwork attempt at replacing the same effect as OSI through sometimes-somewhat-similar-but-ultimately-different means...

[Blaise]

It is unrealistic to suggest that we should have this, because there is no comparative circumstance where this occurred on OSI servers.

It is perfectly realistic for the players who do not PvP, to desire the same opportunity and rewards afforded to those who do.
Certainly two 'wrongs' don't make a right, but it would seem the stance is leaning towards PvP favoritism more than 'era-accuracy' considering how long these silver-rewarded PvP events were taking place.

[iamreallysquall]

we speak of all play types how does this solve the crafter issue? the fisherman ? the beggers? i can go on with other play styles that this does nothing for. we claim the pvpers got all the silver the amount of time you spent in a event you can farm 10k and buy the damn stuff if not faster as pointed out way earlier in this topic
we had story events, survival, monster bashes. Bag ball for example which requires no skills use to run a lot before the bug of holding the bag for X time in turn making it look it drops the ground and you are really holding it still, was abused to the point that someone went and made breakfast mid game while holding the bag. People also use to stack teams and it was same thing same people winning bagball same bards winning survival.

[Blaise]

we speak of all play types how does this solve the crafter issue? the fisherman ? the beggers? i can go on with other play styles that this does nothing for. we claim the pvpers got all the silver the amount of time you spent in a event you can farm 10k and buy the damn stuff if not faster as pointed out way earlier in this topic
we had story events, survival, monster bashes. Bag ball for example which requires no skills use to run a lot before the bug of holding the bag for X time in turn making it look it drops the ground and you are really holding it still, was abused to the point that someone went and made breakfast mid game while holding the bag. People also use to stack teams and it was same thing same people winning bagball same bards winning survival.

Manual events vs auto.

End.

[Kaivan]

Finally, the fact that we have had an established system for doing things is not a relevant issue. The fact of the matter is that we could argue this particular point for a number of mechanics that have not been corrected since the creation of the server, and it would be just as valid an argument to leave those mechanics alone as it would be to introduce another permanent inaccuracy.

This is a complete evasion of the entire discussion. You can't just say "X is not a relevant issue" when it's the crux of the entire area people are looking to improve, or just go "it's just as valid to leave things exactly as they are as it would be changing it to something completely different despite the numerous particular reasons people have mentioned for altering it further because...well, just because." That's what those statements boil down to...just saying something sweeping and broad like that doesn't make it true

Actually, this is not an evasion of the discussion at all. What we have is an inaccurate mechanic (fully automated events) that has existed for a long time on Second Age. The proposal is to replace that inaccurate mechanic with a different mechanic. Specifically, permanently adding silver as a spawn on all creatures. The reality is that this mechanic is also entirely inaccurate, and proposing that we replace one inaccurate mechanic with another inaccurate mechanic is not acceptable. Additionally, this particular argument can be extended to other mechanics, where the replacement of an inaccurate mechanic with a different inaccurate mechanic is also completely ridiculous. Thus, the point stands.

It all comes down to this:

Silver dropping on all mobs randomly across the board - less unique custom items being created than what is currently in place, yet more fair for all play types.

We have a system in place currently, and we are discussing a vastly better, more fun, more equitable system of getting to the exact same destination. Simple as that. That's not only worth discussing, but maybe even necessary considering the flaws of how things are currently done (even if the goal is great). It's especially important considering the massive changes in silver availability, reward costs, server events, etc. that have rollercoaster'd along in the history of this server.

Again, regardless of the perceived improvements to game play that this system would provide, this is not an acceptable change because it does nothing for accuracy, and in fact damages accuracy further.

The only thing that's NOT relevant is the main "argument" that's pushed by most of the people in this thread who have chimed in against the proposal- the idea that it's bad simply because that's not how it was done on the OSI servers, when the current system of tournaments and special events are anyway already just a rickety, patchwork attempt at replacing the same effect as OSI through sometimes-somewhat-similar-but-ultimately-different means...

False. See the above statements for exactly why this is not the case. The only relevant argument is the change's effect on accuracy, and there is no justification for a permanent addition of this kind.

[Flea]

We have silver as a means to obtain items that cant be obtained in other ways.

OK, Kaiven - Question. Do you believe the events system that is currently (albeit not currently running for a couple months now...) in place, is the best way to distribute silver?

PVP events can give out twice as much silver to one person as a CTF or double domination can divided by an entire team.

The time events take place is way out of whack. 17 of the 22 events on the event schedule occur at times where (if your an American working a standard job schedule) you wouldnt be able to attend. They occur in off hours where less players are online. No events ever in "Peak" hours.




From what ive seen field PVP has decreased since we havnt had events, a main argument by anti event folk is that events decrease field PVP. When in fact that hasnt been the case. Im out looking for PVP daily and has been harder to find than ever.

I suggest a planned out, WELL PROMOTED event to take place once events are reinstated. Give a week or two notice and do it during PEAK hours. If you put it on main page of website and hyped it up, id be interested to see how many players you can get back online.

[Vilenarios]

I'm not sure I follow the whole "silver is only available to the leet pvpers" train of thought. Silver can be (or used to be) bought, for a pretty steady rate. Want a cool dyed hat? Grind 5 million gold. Is there much of a difference difference between farming "creature x" for a .01% of silver, vs farming "creature y" for a 100% chance of a certain gold amount? I don't quite see the point of changing 1 inaccuracy for another. Seems like opening up the door to random silver drops off any kind of mob will ultimately just mean afk macroers in dungeons, with nothing but bandages and a shitty weapon. At least the past methods of silver acquisition were mostly skill based (bagball, survival, tournies, double dom). There were even non-skill based ways to get it too (scavenger hunt quest, ctf, special events). The whole conversation just reminds me of World of Warcraft in a sense that time = reward, and not skill/strategy/practice = reward. However,

From what ive seen field PVP has decreased since we havnt had events, a main argument by anti event folk is that events decrease field PVP. When in fact that hasnt been the case. Im out looking for PVP daily and has been harder to find than ever.

I totally agree with this. I am still in big favor of returning the automated events - with silver rewards or without, in trammel safe-zone, or in the open world. It really doesnt matter. It is just a great way to bring activity to a low-population shard.

[BlackFoot]

Additionally, this particular argument can be extended to other mechanics, where the replacement of an inaccurate mechanic with a different inaccurate mechanic is also completely ridiculous. Thus, the point stands.

This wouldn't be the first instance of replacing a known inaccurate mechanic with another known inaccurate mechanic on UOSA. Some previous changes weren't the perfect solutions (complete 100% accuracy), but they were known to be inaccurate but better than what was in place. Swing mechanics have been replaced multiple times, vendor systems, monster attributes, etc

It would also be replacing an inequitable system with a much more well rounded system.

To Lelouche - about other play styles having the opportunity for silver - read Jorel's post.

[Kaivan]

We have silver as a means to obtain items that cant be obtained in other ways.

Which is an additional bonus that was never available on OSI servers. On OSI servers, once the window of opportunity to acquire an item had closed, the item was no longer available. We, on the other hand, maintain an indefinite window for acquiring certain items.

OK, Kaiven - Question. Do you believe the events system that is currently (albeit not currently running for a couple months now...) in place, is the best way to distribute silver?

No. The best way to distribute silver, assuming that silver continues in it's current role would be as a random drop on creatures manually activated for in-world events that run for a limited time (less than 1 week), with a quest theme and (usually) objective.

The time events take place is way out of whack. 17 of the 22 events on the event schedule occur at times where (if your an American working a standard job schedule) you wouldnt be able to attend. They occur in off hours where less players are online. No events ever in "Peak" hours.

This was intentional. Events that take place at off hours has less of an impact on player interaction than it does at peak times.

I suggest a planned out, WELL PROMOTED event to take place once events are reinstated. Give a week or two notice and do it during PEAK hours. If you put it on main page of website and hyped it up, id be interested to see how many players you can get back online.

Events as a concept have not been removed. They currently only happen as in-world events constructed and run by the GMs. The fact that we don't run an event every day, week, or even month, is entirely irrelevant. OSI didn't even have events at the frequency that players here expected them, and they had dedicated staff for that purpose. The sense of entitlement regarding events is ridiculous.

Additionally, this particular argument can be extended to other mechanics, where the replacement of an inaccurate mechanic with a different inaccurate mechanic is also completely ridiculous. Thus, the point stands.

This wouldn't be the first instance of replacing a known inaccurate mechanic with another known inaccurate mechanic on UOSA. Some previous changes weren't the perfect solutions (complete 100% accuracy), but they were known to be inaccurate but better than what was in place. Swing mechanics have been replaced multiple times, vendor systems, monster attributes, etc

It would also be replacing an inequitable system with a much more well rounded system.

Since I was associated with nearly all of the changes, I can tell you that these changes were not added with the intent that you've purported them to have. For many of these changes, the actual changes came about as a result of best known evidence that clearly showed that what we had was an inaccurate mechanic, and that the new mechanic was likely to be more accurate. In the case of permanently adding silver as a normal drop, we know that it isn't any more accurate than the automated event system, thus we can't even assume that it will improve accuracy, and as such, it cannot be added.

Quite frankly, it's a ridiculous to compare evolving mechanics that don't always get it right on the first shot with a change like this, it's apples to oranges.

[Flea]

The time events take place is way out of whack. 17 of the 22 events on the event schedule occur at times where (if your an American working a standard job schedule) you wouldnt be able to attend. They occur in off hours where less players are online. No events ever in "Peak" hours.

This was intentional. Events that take place at off hours has less of an impact on player interaction than it does at peak times.[/quote]

I kind of gathered it was intentional. I completely understand what you tried to do with it, but the fact is, events CREATED interaction. After events you could always find people around, because they decided to leave there house for an event. As I said now that the scheduled events arnt running, there much less PVP activity on the shard. Some people log on FOR events and then find someone to do after it, instead of simply not logging on at all.

[Beatingu2]

At the end of the day, UOSA has had automated events for a very long time. Your either in one of two camps.

1) You cannot pvp, bard skillfully, click quickly to bag ball or manage to join the "stacked" team in domination or CTF. You believe in farming monsters with your Kal Ort Por macro ready and spending your Sunday afternoon in a role playing event held between Kanders Pirates and the orcs. Silver should spawn on monsters. You think its unfair in a game where competition and skill are the most important factors in receiving your Trammel based memorabilia, that your ability to farm cannot garner the same rewards. Hell at least if it spawned randomly on a corpse of a Mongbat you might have a shot right?

2) You put your time in to learn the mechanics of the game. The wild west feel of the T2A era is what you reminisce about and try to recreate. Box pvp is a public arena where you can showcase your skills or try to improve them in front of your peers. No IRC warriors can call you out in this arena, they need to buck up or shut up. Malice and TG don't have another 45 screens to run, luring you into their cleverly laid out archer bot turrets or single tile gm anatomy hally dexers. You play other competitive games on the Internet, you might not be the best but the thrill of competition against other humans is the tops in your eyes.

What i don't get is, why are you on a shard that is reliving an era ripe with pvp competition and you don't want to pvp? Why are you here? The friends i have that like non-competitive games have drifted forward into the console realm long ago, playing the likes of the Final Fantasy Series, or perhaps Metal Gear?

I spent a great deal of time getting good enough to win tournaments. I took months of lumps, but i pushed forward till i achieved my goal of being one of the best PVPers on the shard. Why would T2A ever offer the off hours multi clienting tamer the chance to achieve silver from monsters? You want silver? Do what all the other non-competitive players did, buy it from me or another member of Cr3w.

Free Beatingu and stop crying

[Flea]

I suggest a planned out, WELL PROMOTED event to take place once events are reinstated. Give a week or two notice and do it during PEAK hours. If you put it on main page of website and hyped it up, id be interested to see how many players you can get back online.

Events as a concept have not been removed. They currently only happen as in-world events constructed and run by the GMs. The fact that we don't run an event every day, week, or even month, is entirely irrelevant. OSI didn't even have events at the frequency that players here expected them, and they had dedicated staff for that purpose. The sense of entitlement regarding events is ridiculous.[/quote]


I think you mistook the spirit in which my statement was made. I was more or less suggestion a "HEY COME BACK AND PLAY UOSA" promotional event.

Understand its a downward spiral when people don't play.

Example : I log on, run around, cant find anyone to fight with log off.

Player B. logs on, runs around, doesnt find anyone, logs off.

Player C. logs on, does not see player B or myself, logs off.

Player D. logs on, cant ever find any action and decides nothing ever happens and gives up, doesnt log on for 2 weeks, his house decays and Telamon gets richer.
Repeat this, and slowly people give up on trying to get out in the world.