Attack last and tabbing

[Hoots]

what would be the point in adding this? honestly are you trying to make the pvp system worse?

i think we all know the answer to this...

[Faust]

If this game mechanic isn't accurate that would be the point in changing it since the development of this shard is based on that aspect. However, the "change" that Hemperor is suggesting clearly is not accurate and would be absurd to shift from one "possible" inaccuracy for a known inaccuracy. This should not be changed until the exact nature of this function can be extracted from the demo in my opinion. The way this packet throttle works is based on two separate but related delay processes. The initial delay is more than likely what Hemperor has suggested involving the 0.25s delay from one tab to the next, but there should be a catch for a "phase out" process that disables tabbing for a small duration. There could also possibly be no 0.25s delay at all and allow packets to be transfered instantly with the "phase out" process being the only thing to stop the packets from being received. This could mean the time out phase could very well just be 0.25s, but this clearly looks longer on the demo when testing the in game feature. I can only assume the "phase out" delay is roughly around 1 second just like all other common delays that existed. A good example of this would be the action delay that so many whined about when it was fixed and lowered slightly.

[Hemperor]

The point of this was clearly stated in my "Picking and choosing" topic, something I won't continue here, but you can all thank Faust for that being deleted.

He's bat shit crazy, do not read his posts. Kaivan (staff member) and I have both confirmed and concluded that what I have said is correct, avoiding a wrestle will no longer be possible, gg pvp.

Please complain, that was actually my point, hopefully my topic will be re opened.

[Faust]

You can believe all you want that your "picking and choosing" topic was deleted because of me if it makes you feel better son.

Kaivan has been wrong on numerous occassions in the past in regard to many game mechanics here and on previous shards that we both have played. There is no question that he has done a very good job in regard to non-pvp related game features though. His taming research is a great example of his work. However, this "visual interpretation" of the tab delay is faulty at best. Again, "Derrick" has already concluded that there is more to the packet throttle than a simplistic 0.25s delay in between tabs. I don't know why you continue to dodge this fact.

I suppose that it's going to take me recording a video breaking the frames down like in the past to show how wrong you really are again...

PS
Please spare the negative remarks... I have done more work and research with '99 era shards than you could grasp in a life time.

[Hemperor]

So, Kaivan and I going on the demo and testing this for quite a while, him clicking me as fast as possible and I tabbing as fast as possible (neither receiving delays) and I still wrestling when I have a swing ready counts as nothing?

[Faust]

So you are suggesting that you have pin pointed a "spam delay" that takes quick repeatitive actions to time out was concluded visually on Batlin's demo server hosted in Belgium?

Also, this definitely makes this theory a fact too from my understanding...

[Hemperor]

Hosted in Belgium? Why are you so clearly, desperately incorrect in every post? Stop cluttering topics, it's annoying.

We observed that there is no way of avoiding a wrestle when next to each other, even on current OSI. The once per tick was proposed by Kaivan, I seriously welcome you to go ahead and record it, I've made so many videos it's your turn and this time you can prove my point, thanks.

[Faust]

How am I "desperately incorrect" when I am trying to get the facts straightened out?

God, calm down kid. I guess that angry manic depressed Hemperor still lurks deep down in there after all.

Batlin is from Belgium if I am not mistaken and he hosts the "online" version of the demo there... You said that Kaivan and you were doing the testing on the demo with each other. Why wouldn't I come to this conclusion that you were testing it on Batlin's demo server since that is the only place you can do this at on the demo?

Please spare me your hateful rants son. I am simply trying to get the facts straight here, since you have not been clear from the very beginning as mentioned by the second poster in this thread.


Btw, your comment about using current UO servers for reliable research is invalid.

Changed War Mode Toggle delay to one second.

Thought that I should point this out to you...

Again... So you have concluded that this game mechanic has a strict delay of 0.25s in between tabs from a server hosted in Belgium, correct?

[Hemperor]

I understand that, I simply stated that as well on OSI you can't avoid a "wrestle", bad statement I guess because even tabbing has been reworked on OSI.

Here are the facts:
Batlin is not hosting a server.
I connected directly to Kaivan.
He double clicked me as fast as he could (attack last)
I tabbed at the same rate
He viewed me as tabbing non stop
I swung whenever I had a swing loaded.

[Faust]

Now you are starting to make a bit more sense, finally...

I have not had the pleasure to experience Batlin's hard work with the demo yet, so I am quite unfamiliar with the entire process still. I assumed he was running the server on a local box since he asked me to assist him at one point in time in the past mentioning the latency wouldn't be top notch since he lives in Belgium... This was in the earlier stages way before you ever knew about the project.

More questions if you don't mind son.

Did the both of you fix your keyboard repeat delay in this test?

There is a huge difference between repeating a key stroke every 0.25s compared to the 0.5+ default delay set for all standard Windows OS's.

I would also like to point out that you cannot "avoid wrestling" by tabbing out on UOSA right now unless you're slow or bad.

Oh, and btw.. I am glad that you proved my work on "attack last" and "auto defend" correct on the demo after all... Doing the testing that I had to be subjected to involving npc's wasn't easy at all. I am just glad this could be declared officially over including actual PC's too.

[Hemperor]

There certainly isn't a 0.5 repeat delay by default. Try slamming down one of your keys

eeeeeeeeeeee

That took me two seconds.

I suggest you try this out on the demo rather than making poor excuses, sure it would need another look at for the specifics, Kaivan and I did not record anything... However, there are one of two things that will come from this topic:
"Delays" will be shortened to or very close to 0.25, they will be nowhere near what they are now.
They will not change because majority agree this will completely break pvp here and this is only exploitable through 3rd party programs such as Razor.

In the case of the second option, I request my "Picking and choosing" topic is brought back.

[Faust]

Again, the same packet throttle used for tab today has been here from day one... That is not what "wiped" out abusive tab/attack looping macros produced by Razor. I pointed this out previously with the patch note and statements from Derrick in this thread. If this changes it will do nothing to produce more abuse with Razor. It could possibly increase some but not at the level you are thinking or existed here in the past. It would take the removal of the previous implementation involving the "pause" to the weapon delay timer when hitting the keys to re-create this past problem.

[Kraarug]

If this game mechanic isn't accurate that would be the point in changing it since the development of this shard is based on that aspect. However, the "change" that Hemperor is suggesting clearly is not accurate and would be absurd to shift from one "possible" inaccuracy for a known inaccuracy. This should not be changed until the exact nature of this function can be extracted from the demo in my opinion. The way this packet throttle works is based on two separate but related delay processes. The initial delay is more than likely what Hemperor has suggested involving the 0.25s delay from one tab to the next, but there should be a catch for a "phase out" process that disables tabbing for a small duration. There could also possibly be no 0.25s delay at all and allow packets to be transfered instantly with the "phase out" process being the only thing to stop the packets from being received. This could mean the time out phase could very well just be 0.25s, but this clearly looks longer on the demo when testing the in game feature. I can only assume the "phase out" delay is roughly around 1 second just like all other common delays that existed. A good example of this would be the action delay that so many whined about when it was fixed and lowered slightly.

It seems that a 1 second tab/war mode delay was not added until 12 Jan 2005.

http://www.uoherald.com/news/news.php?newsid=751

Combat Fixes/Tweaks

* Changed War Mode Toggle delay to one second.

It would be very difficult to believe that a toggle delay of >1 second existed before this, and I have searched all the previous patch notes and have yet to find a reference to any similar tab related toggle delay.

Given that, it would seem that there was no such delay or, as Hemp suggests, the delay was set the the min of 250ms.

[Faust]

I already listed that patch above Kraarug...

If you read a little further up you would understand more about how the packet throttle works for tabbing right now on UOSA.

There are two different values/delays associated with it. There is a small 0.25s delay in between tabs and a delay with a longer duration that "times out" disabling war mode change for 2 seconds. This same feature exists on the demo the last time that I checked it out... This patch clearly states the toggle in between war mode was set to one second. This obviously means you cannot toggle but every one second from that point on after that patch. It doesn't state that tab was increased or decreased but instead simply "changed", nothing else.

Again, I honestly don't know one way or the other what the exact values are personally. However, this definitely should not change until there is definitive proof one way or the other that is extracted from the demo itself. Hemp likes to chump to conclusions way too quickly before getting all the facts, unfortunately.

[valheru]

He's bat shit crazy, do not read his posts. Kaivan (staff member) and I have both confirmed and concluded that what I have said is correct, avoiding a wrestle will no longer be possible, gg pvp.

Hemp please leave phrases like this out of the suggestion forum, this is trash talk material.

Second, i'm just curious, but was your final comment one of excitement knowing that this type of change would destroy PVP on this server?

third. I don't see any good information that would warrant a change on this topic. Everyone is basing too many things off of the demo, which had undocumented changes in the code.

As faust said, I dont see why an inaccurate (current) system would be swapped for something else that is probably inaccurate as well.