cA: GOOD OR BAD

[noxmonk]

The problem is, that you cannot simply take a poll.

[MatronDeWinter]

The problem is, that you cannot simply take a poll.

I stand by that quote, however it was in referance to era-mechanics and not personal opinion.

[Bakishwaka]

The problem is, that you cannot simply take a poll.

weak effort nox monk

weak

[noxmonk]

The problem is, that you cannot simply take a poll.

weak effort nox monk

weak

There is no effort needed because the poll question is already subjectively skewed in your favor. Your poll is baseless and invalid from the start. This seems to be a trend with cA, or cA supporters to make heavily inaccurate polls as shown by Matron's.

From: http://www.survey.com/services/how_to_w ... stion.html

How to Write a Poll Question
It is important to follow general guidelines when writing poll questions. These guidelines help ensure that your question is clear and understandable, and that you’ve provided a set of responses applicable to all respondents.

Writing your poll question:

The best poll question is written in a clear, concise, and unbiased fashion. The question text is brief, and leaves no uncertainty as to what is being asked of the respondent. Because reliable data are derived from questions that leave no uncertainty as to what is being asked of the respondent, resist the temptation to include more words than are necessary in question text. To maximize the validity of poll results, question text should be unbiased. Therefore, it is best to avoid interjecting personal opinion into question text.

Avoid complicating your poll question by including multiple dimensions. In other words, a question like “Do you like the appearance and usability of this Web site?” (yes, no) will evoke unclear responses. If a respondent replies “yes,” you will not know whether they liked the appearance, the usability, or both. You are better off asking one question regarding appearance, and a separate question for usability.

Defining your response set:

Response set construction should follow the same guidelines as the construction of poll questions. When developing response sets, try to follow these additional guidelines:

* Include all possible options – Ensure that every respondent is able to answer the question you are presenting. Try to offer complete response sets, and include “None of the above,” “Don’t know/does not apply,” “Decline to state,” etc., where necessary. Respondents who are not presented with an appropriate response option for their needs tend to either skip the question altogether, or worse, select a response option that is not an accurate reflection of how they feel.


* Provide mutually exclusive options – If your question offers a single select response set (as opposed to multiple select), ensure that your response options are clearly different from one another. This will help keep your respondents from becoming confused as to which response option(s) they should select.


* Use appropriate ranges – Do not include ranges with overlapping values. If a respondent wants to enter a value of “5” or “10” to a given question, which of the following poor response options would they select?

0 – 5
5 – 10
10 – 15
15 or more

A better response set would be:

None
1 – 4
5 – 9
10 – 14
15 or more


* Use appropriate scales – Select a scale type that is appropriate for the manner in which you intend to use the results. Two examples of scale types are:

o Balanced scales – Balanced scales should include an odd number of responses (5 or more), and always provide a “middle ground” for respondents. Balanced scales are used when you want to “collapse” the results of the top two (1-2=“Dislike”) or bottom two (4-5=“Like”) scores in your analysis. For example:

1 – Dislike extremely
2 –
3 – Neither like nor dislike
4 –
5 – Like extremely


o Continuum scales – Continuum scales have no literal midpoint, and are best when you want to report an average, or mean score in your results. For example:

1 – Not at all familiar
2 – Slightly familiar
3 – Moderately familiar
4 – Very familiar
5 – Extremely familiar

[ArchaicSubrosa]

Though unaffiliated with any guild and although pestered to no end by theives, I am appreciative of Chum and the associates wherewith this shard would be boring without. Thanks for the roleplaying aspect in this RPG.

[MatronDeWinter]

cA did not create this poll, or have any involvement in it.

On the topic of the other poll...

The poll is just here to show that if a voting system was enabled to decide the features of a particular item (in this case the server), the results will always lean towards the majority vote.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7490

If the polling question was "Would you like to abolish Pre-casting", the results would most certainly remain the same as the majority rules. The point is that enabling a voting system of the masses, defeats the purpose of "UO:Secondage". Majority voting is what led to the implimentation of Player-Friendly features such as Trammel, and equal distribution of Fame/Karma, on EA-Servers. I hope that the players here (myself included) play here to experience T2A, as the era-accuracy is what seperates this from a run of the mill neon-item festival with item bless deeds (other shards).

Please try to remain on topic next time.

[Santiago]

WoW I'm glad there has been so much to post about.

[Bakishwaka]

The problem is, that you cannot simply take a poll.

weak effort nox monk

weak

There is no effort needed because the poll question is already subjectively skewed in your favor. Your poll is baseless and invalid from the start. This seems to be a trend with cA, or cA supporters to make heavily inaccurate polls as shown by Matron's.

From: http://www.survey.com/services/how_to_w ... stion.html

How to Write a Poll Question
It is important to follow general guidelines when writing poll questions. These guidelines help ensure that your question is clear and understandable, and that you’ve provided a set of responses applicable to all respondents.

Writing your poll qu...........................ad nauseum

cA's effect on this shard
good 68% [ 36 ] x
neutral 17% [ 9 ]
bad 15% [ 8 ]



how is this biased, overly complicated, or laced with personal opinion?
its a simple question of the subjects opinion about the overall effect on this shard. is it good neutral or bad... fairly concise and unbiased, I THINK .. am i wrong?

nice try noxmonk, way to copy and paste.

and no i am not cA, but I do support what they do.


if you don't like the format of my poll make your own, and we'll see how she goes

[noxmonk]

how is this biased, overly complicated, or laced with personal opinion?
its a simple question of the subjects opinion about the overall effect on this shard. is it good neutral or bad... fairly concise and unbiased, I THINK .. am i wrong?

nice try noxmonk, way to copy and paste.

and no i am not cA, but I do support what they do.


if you don't like the format of my poll make your own, and we'll see how she goes

Since you seem to be blind to your own proclivities in your statement: "What do you think? Is cA a wonderfully creative and original influence on the shard and it's community or a group of griefers that revel in others misery and chase players away."

This is what we would call a subjective poll description. You are attaching an overly positive and overly negative connotation to each choice. It is not an objective description. When presented with a positive or negative choice it is human disposition to choose the positive. [ I.E. - Pro-choice, anti-choice | Pro-Life, Anti-Life Debates on abortion.] There's a logical reason they use the pro and anti when describing each other. Any further education and you'll have to enroll in one of the classes I'm teaching this fall.

A more accurate poll description would have been: In all likelihood, have the actions of cA been the sole responsibility for players joining or leaving the shard?

[Bakishwaka]

as i said, make your own post and quit trying SO SO hard to appear either objective or educated. You're failing at both.

my first post on this thread is NOT the poll

the POLL clearly states.... wait .. why do i need to reiterate again.. read the thing clearly.

edit: my views were clear from the outset, they are a given; leaving MY opinion unstated to appease your sense of what constitutes a legitimate and accurate poll (which a forum like this could NEVER actually create) is both prententious and a waste of time.

the POLL itself states the conditions and the options, which are NOT skewed in anybody's favor.

carry on

[chumbucket]

This is getting a bit silly, so I'm a bit hesitant to enter too much more into this, but I'll make a few points:

A more accurate poll description would have been: In all likelihood, have the actions of cA been the sole responsibility for players joining or leaving the shard?

1. I'm not sure if that'd be more "accurate", but it would certainly be less clear.

2. I'm the guildmaster of cA, but cA isn't exactly something I run. If you want to be in cA, you only have to follow the three rules: 1. No hax. 2. No epithets such as 'nigger', 'faggot' etc. 3. Respect fellow guildmembers. Outside of that there are no rules. I don't tell people what to do. Matron doesn't tell people what do. But I will suggest this: Ignore all future debates on the forums about whether or not cA is a good thing for the shard. Most people like us, despite our mission, and even if they didn't, we do nothing in need of defense. This is T2A. We play it like it was played in T2A. Even if most people didn't like us, even if we ran off all the newbies, even if we hurt the shard's numbers, we are era accurate. If you want a shard without us or our ilk, I suggest one of the many fine Trammel freeshards. Of course, you won't go. This is the best shard, hands down. We are a small part of why that is so.

3. cA is taking off. Previous incarnations were fun, but not as good as the current line up. The current active members are doing exactly what I wanted this guild to do when I established it nearly a year ago. I wish I were playing more!

[noxmonk]

as i said, make your own post and quit trying SO SO hard to appear either objective or educated. You're failing at both.

my first post on this thread is NOT the poll

the POLL clearly states.... wait .. why do i need to reiterate again.. read the thing clearly.

edit: my views were clear from the outset, they are a given; leaving MY opinion unstated to appease your sense of what constitutes a legitimate and accurate poll (which a forum like this could NEVER actually create) is both prententious and a waste of time.

the POLL itself states the conditions and the options, which are NOT skewed in anybody's favor.

carry on

ad hominem so early? tsk.

You clearly stated the question asked prior to the choices. Having the choices above the stated question does not negate the fact that when someone looks to a forum poll, the first post is what is read. Your tactless debate will not fly here, unfortunately for you.

Also, you did not leave, your statement as you claim. You posed the actual question to answer for the poll in your post, not the title as this implied by common knowledge. If you truly wished to state just the question, it would be common sense to put an "nt" as your first post, and your second indicating your statement pertaining to the post. You know this already, you just have no intention of actually admitting it because it would obviously further invalidate the topic. Which is fine, I can understand it's hard to swallow the bitter pill of pride, but you'll eventually get it.

However, this is pointless, you appear to not posses the propensity to understand this, and I'm growing tired of having to explain it. Problem solved.

[chumbucket]

I'm going to ignore my own advice, and play MR SMART MANS game.

You quote quite a bit of sound advice for the construction of reliable polling. Unfortunately, it is quoted to no end, as you make no significant case based on the information contained in your quote.

Avoid complicating your poll question by including multiple dimensions.

Done.

Response set construction:

* Include all possible options

Done

* Provide mutually exclusive options

Done

* Use appropriate ranges

Done.

* Use appropriate scales

Done.

o Balanced scales

Done.

o Continuum scales.

Not done, but not necessary.

You also complain that the text of the forum post for the poll was leading because it had (1) described two extreme options and (2) presented a positive or pro option, which people are likely to select. While you might correct in a technical sense, it is quite clear that the effect is not likely to be so significant that a large number of people that would have selected BAD with an optimal wording choice instead selected GOOD. GOOD is beating BAD almost 5 to 1. It is preposterous to maintain that without the text accompanying the poll that the would have been any significant reversal in these numbers. Even a 2 to 1 ration of GOOD to BAD would be a resounding victory for the practitioners of the bardic arts.

Also--and I take it this much is obvious to everyone--it's a frickin poll on a forum! WTFOMG.

[noxmonk]

I'm going to ignore my own advice, and play MR SMART MANS game.

ad hom. expected. OMG U TRALK IN COMPLEEET SENENTENSCES UR AKTING SMRT HOW TODOUNNDER STAND? STPO AKT SOSMRT K? OMGZ

...
You also complain that the text of the forum post for the poll was leading because it had (1) described two extreme options and (2) presented a positive or pro option, which people are likely to select. While you might correct in a technical sense, it is quite clear that the effect is not likely to be so significant that a large number of people that would have selected BAD with an optimal wording choice instead selected GOOD. GOOD is beating BAD almost 5 to 1. It is preposterous to maintain that without the text accompanying the poll that the would have been any significant reversal in these numbers. Even a 2 to 1 ration of GOOD to BAD would be a resounding victory for the practitioners of the bardic arts.

Also--and I take it this much is obvious to everyone--it's a frickin poll on a forum! WTFOMG.

So an appropriate range would be ABSOLUTELY AMAZING OMG BEST EVER versus OMG WRST THING HAPPN 2 ME LIFETIME SLIT WRIST AFK.

Which is, essentially the range of good and bad that were posted. The degree of good versus the degree of bad is disproportionate. As I stated already, the polling question was not objective. I already stated what a more objective(not accurate, it would yield more accurate results, I spoke incorrectly) polling question would contain.

Have the members of cA increased or decreased the shards population based solely off their actions?
as opposed to
Has cA been a rising boon of morals and amazingness, providing free houses, thousands of events and millions worth of gold to all players , or have they primarily been active thieves?

It's easy to skew a poll question to the favor you want, by overemphasizing the positive I've made the negative a far easier and more likely choice on the second example. Of any poll, the question that's posed is really where you can skew it. In all likelihood I would have a 5 to 1 in favor of thieves in my second poll. Does this make it a good poll with accurate date? No. It doesn't. I've invalidated the entire poll before anyone even responded.

If data collection done on players leaving would have been done and why they joined, we could probably state with absolute certainty what is already likely the truth. cA, based solely on it's actions has in all likelihood reduced the playerbase rather than increase it. I've never stated this is absolute truth because the data collection has not and will not be done. However, keeping a question regarding a positive or negative impact on the shard should be kept honest, unfortunately this one is not.

Lastly, if it's truly a "forum! WTFOMG.", you should probably stop responding if you feel it is completely negligible.

[Bakishwaka]

thank you chum, after trying to read noxmonk's convoluted reply I'm very relieved you were able to respond on my behalf with such a succinct rebuttal.

i was one cup of coffee away from nerdraging, and that's not something i like to do....

btw nox ... what does nt as the first post mean exactly? im not trying to take the piss i really don't know .. this IS the only forum i frequent and my e-speak in regards to polls is not fluent. in fact this is the first poll i have ever created, and i must say it's been a RIOT

so thanks for that