EZ UO, Cavewight's Idoc, and Enforcement

[Kaivan]

Yes, players have been banned on multiple occasions for the use of EUO and other unapproved 3rd party programs.

[Capitalist]

Have they been caught in other ways than afk resource gathering, text, or screenshots condemning themselves?

[Kaivan]

We don't discuss the specific methods, reasons, or evidence for bans, even in a generic sense. The fact that players have been banned in the past for unapproved 3rd party program use is all that will be said.

[Excretious]

Kinda disappointed to see vets cry foul here because they didnt get exactly the haul they think they deserved. I didnt get shit because i missed the drop by a half hour and you guys are crying cause your server births/uniques arent as good as someone elses.... fucking lame.

Wouldnt it make more sense to think that instead of adding every damn item into the scavenger agent, maybe these guys only went for exactly the items they wanted therefore clearing it up and making razors job that much more easier/efficient? Is it possible that these guys could even be *gasp* better at looting Idocs then you?

Euo cant loot items any faster than Razor.

[Capitalist]

Euo cant loot items any faster than Razor.

Your entire post was disqualified by this ignorance.

[Excretious]

If Euo could loot an item quicker than razor, then it would be detectable by staff. Try again

[Capitalist]

Do you not realize that your incorrect statement is the exact reason for this thread?

[Malaikat]

Do you not realize that your incorrect statement is the exact reason for this thread?

In all fairness, the existence of this thread isn't sufficient enough reason to claim itself to be truth...that's called a circular argument.

[Capitalist]

There's plenty of proof for his specific statement.

[[Uhh] Eo]

Proof such as:

<Dyne> noone is gonna be THAT much better than everyone else at UO, the gap between the best and the next best isn't that high.

[Light Shade]

For all of you that thought that you should have gotten more than others...

1. How many items were on your Razor's scavenger list?
2. How did you "trigger" your Razor's scavenger agent?

Think a bit about those 2 questions before you complain more.

[xynosis]

First of all, people DO use EZUO on secondage.

At Cavewight's idoc everyone was going for a few items (i.e. The Cannon, Tall Statue, Iron Maiden, etc.) The guild [Uhh] got ALL of these items. Just doing the math that there were hundreds of people there, most have scavenger going for those most sought after items...and [Uhh] gets virtually ALL of them? This doesn't add up and if it isn't EZUO, it is something else that they are doing that is just as bad or worse.

In regards to GtH's original post:
To say 'everyone' was going for these items is simply not true. I was going for the Sosaria Tapestry, the Lich loot chest, and the hanging phoenix armor with my accounts. I failed to loot anything else because I was specializing in acquiring those items with scavenger and died on all three accounts. (My fault for not having recall regs on my toons! Lesson learned.) All I got from the IDOC was a few laughs and a good time.

I can also state the possibility that many people might have noticed how many people were going for certain items and thought it may be wise to just go for flowerpots and potted plants... that was a wise decision for them. They made out well! The point is that everyone went for everything there. It was all rare and valuable.

I chose to focus on a few items... If I did it different, I might not have looted the Phoenix Armor at all and therefore never had a chance to loot it. There were several other people on it.

Euo cant loot items any faster than Razor.

Your entire post was disqualified by this ignorance.

In regards to Capitalist/Vega's comment:
Yeah... Capitalist/Vega ought to know how fast EZUO loots. It seems he is not ignorant of that.

Its good that we have Vega here to decide what is valid and what is 'disqualified'. He seems to be a master of college level logic.

As far as ignorance goes...

I think that claiming you are correct based on no evidence or any sense of reality is a form of ignorance too is it not?

Is it possible that the great intellectual known as Vega/Capitalist might be ignorant of how to use razor in certain ways also?

Ill admit that I am ignorant of lots of things. For example... what Capitalist (or anyone on this server whom I do not know in real life) does in their personal life, what they do at their computers, and what programs they run on them... I am completely ignorant of.

I will ASSUME that Capitalist is either at home or on a laptop somewhere online with a decent connection, and running UO/IRC very very VERY often. If not running for most of his waking hours. He seems to be on here every time that I am for sure, and I am on quite often. (I mostly work out of the home in the colder months)

Just because I assume something doesn't make it true. He might be out on dates often with beautiful women who admire his sexy collection of UO pixels. He might be a super hero fighting crime. He might be an elite hacker protecting America from the enemy... I don't know anything about Vega other than how much he plays UO and how his personality is online. (which I will not comment on... if you know him, it speaks for itself.)

Even then, I don't know what the hell programs he is using, how he is using them, or how he uses his hot keys... and I don't see how he or anyone else can possibly know who is using what.

The staff would have the best idea of what is going on... yet he argues with the staff over something he is ignorant of. It is funny and entertaining.

Ok, I am done now. It's been fun typing this up, but I have a dinner date with some friends at the pub. It is dollar burger night! I am such a baller... I am going to pick up the tab for my friends.

[GuardianKnight]

I mean, all points aside, your responses have pretty much made this a "it's okay to use EUO on this server" thread.

You're suggesting that because we can't reliably prevent certain actions under EUO that we're OKing the use of the program on the server, which is a ridiculous position. Using your previous example with music triggers, which are possible under EUO, you're proposing that we should know when that's going on, yet there is no way for us to actually know that. So given that, how can we be expected to know about it and prevent it at all?

I understand that you have to be an idiot to be caught using EUO, but I didn't think if an investigation was occurring that you'd need someone to just post a screenshot with EUO open.

We can't be tasked with investigating a player based on unreliable information. We have extremely limited resources, and any investigation would take an exhaustive amount of time to conduct.

Kaivan is right. All he should be able to get anyone for is gathering items while AFK. Just look through a couple of these threads and see that people used more than 1 account to acquire these items.

Players performing too well? I say no. Players creating bots to gather things up without being active.
Evidence of this crime? People admitting even in this thread that they did it.

THe issue here isn't that EUO is our main problem. The issue that should be looked into is the one I just mentioned.
This is no different than gaining in game with a reg bot or a mining bot.

[Pirul]

(1) I cannot make any statement about IDOCing with EUO simply because I don't do IDOCs as much, and although the suspicion is HIGH, it is virtually impossible to detect because it is not a repetitive action. Although the times I have IDOCed, I have seen people place houses after decay in a way that would be virtually impossible to do manually. And no, Razor cannot place houses.

(2) I know people have been banned for mining/lumberjacking with EUO. And I know because I have been the one to report them, and have known of their bans.

(3) I have also reported the use of EUO for other things, most notably a blatant use of it to auto-login after server down and staff has done nothing about it. Now, I understand that although seeing that 6 of the first 8 players to log in are ghosts positioned at strategic places in the world to "ghost rares" daily and everyday is not "hard" proof enough, and yet of course, it is virtually impossible to detect because it is not a repetitive action.

(4) I suspect it is used in other areas of the game as in rare collecting, notification of item spawns or players coming in the vicinity, etc. But then again, they are all virtually impossible to detect because they are not a repetitive action.

(5) As Malakait has pointed out, I also have "heard" about people who use it actively for PvP, however, guess what? It is virtually impossible to detect because it is not a repetitive action.

Now, the common denominator here seems to be: "virtually impossible to detect". This is like setting a speed limit and taking away radar guns and speedometers from the police. So either enforce it on suspicion, or don't have it at all. It can even be amended to say: "EUO or any other third party program is prohibited to collect resources unattended", because that seems to be the only thing that can be detected (or chosen to be enforced).

As for other points mentioned in the thread:

LS: my scav list was VERY short, and you know I know why and how to do this.
Excretious, Eo, and the rest who claim "get good nub": this has nothing to do with "I didn't get what I wanted, the big bad wolf used EUO! Waaaa!" This has everything to do with that you personally might not use it, but EUO DOES collect items faster than razor, and it IS used in UOSA. The question is, how is UOSA going to deal with it moving forward?
GK: I used 2 clients, and was well within the rules to do so. Did people use more than the 3 they could? Wait, don't tell me ... IP masks made it "virtually impossible to detect". But that is the subject for another discussion.

[Light Shade]

LS: my scav list was VERY short, and you know I know why and how to do this.

Yep, I know you know why....its the other guys I wonder about, heh. EUO is a problem, but people need to be smart with the legal tools they have, also.