UO Second Age

Thank you all for the clarification. Not sure if I have an opinion either way but it is something I see quite often and wanted a clarification.

Now will somebody fix the bugs I've found with guards in the water in vesper? Or a fountain in the middle of the mage shop in Magincia?

Pac wrote:I guess mining unattended is ok too since you're 'spending' shovels when you do it.

This is not the case since it is trivial to create a macro to replace the missing shovels with the very resource acquired via mining. This is also true of lumberjacking via the sale of some lumber to purchase new equipment, it is a closed loop with trivial macro creation to purchase replacement equipment, funded directly by the acquired resource.

The only reason I never afk reg gathered is because I thought it was illegal. Time to write epic scripts.

might as well do it- one thing I say is report any and all u see doing afk reg buying as I am pretty sure there are a few that are using easy uo macros to do it. and by reporting these said ppl they will be caught and banned. Kudos to those who take advantage of this oddity that UOSA is gonna allow. I for one will continue to shop around the normal npc vendors when time permits (NOT AFK THANK YOU) and try to continue to go thru all the loot bags i still have piled in my keeps from the previous years of wyrm bombings

i gather regs afk but i never inhaled.

I suppose staff is thinking that the unattended reg buying as more of an afk necessity gathering agent, vs. unattended resource gatherer.

just some food for thought.

Regardless of legality or not, it took me 1h30min to get 200 blank scrolls tonight.
Had to recall a lot of times, as MANY shops had nothing.

Regardless of legality, it was extremly frustrating and non-fun.
Oh, and vendors selling 2.5 -3x price on scrolls ? you wont get my business.

I very much doubt our fearless leader will change his mind on the subject.
But I wanted to share the frustration and time wasting for only a small amount of blank scrolls.
Now if I had finish the evening with say... 2000 in that time frame, fine.
Reagents weren't as bad, if I wanted I could easily gotten 1k of a few of them (bloodmoss being the rarest tonight after scrolls)

Very annoying.
-- My 2 cents.

Pac wrote:I guess mining unattended is ok too since you're 'spending' shovels when you do it.

Fair argument IMO.

This shard is far too automated.

Personally, I don't see a problem with it.

I've been able to keep myself well stocked on regs, and only had to buy a couple times from player vendors while training up magery on a couple chars. Otherwise, its entirely been non-afk purchases. Have a buy agent, and don't be broke and you'll stock up quick.

What I find amusing in all of these threads is the common argument of 'item scarcity' and how it makes things un-fun for you. I very very clearly remember much of the scarcity you see here existing on OSI, all the way through AoS. People will take any advantage they can get; and you're most wise to follow suit to some extent if you want to stay competitive. Item scarcity, for me, IS part of the fun of the game. You never completely know what to predict anywhere; be it going to tame animals on Verity Isle, or going to the Brit tanner's to buy hides. That unpredictability is part of what keeps it interesting.

Just my 2gp.

To each their Own I guess. I get the feeling that the people defending afk reg buying are they very people who make good off it.
It might even discourage new players who join just simply wanting 20 of each reg to hunt with but are unable to. Nit everyone wants 500-1000 of regs.
Personally I find it rather boring spend half of the what little time I have to play on finding just 20 of each reg to hunt. Just my 2gp.
Guess we have to agree to disagree, idk.

devildjinn wrote:To each their Own I guess. I get the feeling that the people defending afk reg buying are they very people who make good off it.
It might even discourage new players who join just simply wanting 20 of each reg to hunt with but are unable to. Nit everyone wants 500-1000 of regs.
Personally I find it rather boring spend half of the what little time I have to play on finding just 20 of each reg to hunt. Just my 2gp.
Guess we have to agree to disagree, idk.

I disagree; I'm on the dissenting side and I'm certainly not one of the AFK gatherers... I haven't accumulated enough wealth to do so yet, even if I wanted to. The point is that this game isn't meant to be easy -- the scavenging out a living on a shard is part of the adventure.

People really blow this whole thing out of proportion; in 2 months of being on the server, I've yet to find myself in a situation where I can't source enough regs at cost to do what I want to do that day. Is it easy accumulating enough regs to macro a character? No... but it shouldn't be either. We already have easy methods to gain the skills; at least by having you need to scavenge your materials to do so takes away from some of the automation of the game.

I get more than 20 each of each reg pretty much every visit to Moonglow or Brit. Typically closer to 2-300 of each. Set up your buy agents and don't forget to check herbalist/alchemist shops in addition to mage shops.

I dont agree with it, regardless of what anyone says, I dont see how you cant define this as "resource gathering unattended." They are buying regs (which are a resource) unattended.

Secondly, to the people who havent had problem finding regs, have you bought in bulk? Since I have returned to this server, I have NEVER seen a vendor with over 600 of one reg on it. Heres the other thing, back in OSI days, reg buying was always, kinda fun. There were always plenty to go around. So, why the heck on a server with 700-800 people are bulk regs impossible to get (from npcs) when, back in OSI days, with 5000-10000 people, it was a cinch? Either the reg restock on vendors is too slow, or these few reg gatherers really are ruining it for all. My opinion? Make macroing legal for "skill gain" or to knock hours off kill counts only. If your macroing your magery, blacksmithy or w/e else, then so be it, thats fine. But macroing crap like this just to sell on your vendor is just total bs, and kinda hurts the game.

Crazy how it says theres always 800 people online but the dungeons always seem empty. I wander how many people macro to make money in this game? I farm constantly, and rarely am pkd, and rarely do I see other people. If you take out the afk part of making money, it could make the game a lot more fun, plus, its still technically era accurate, since OSI allowed absolutely no macroing whatsoever.

Menkaure wrote:I dont agree with it, regardless of what anyone says, I dont see how you cant define this as "resource gathering unattended." They are buying regs (which are a resource) unattended.

Secondly, to the people who havent had problem finding regs, have you bought in bulk? Since I have returned to this server, I have NEVER seen a vendor with over 600 of one reg on it. Heres the other thing, back in OSI days, reg buying was always, kinda fun. There were always plenty to go around. So, why the heck on a server with 700-800 people are bulk regs impossible to get (from npcs) when, back in OSI days, with 5000-10000 people, it was a cinch? Either the reg restock on vendors is too slow, or these few reg gatherers really are ruining it for all. My opinion? Make macroing legal for "skill gain" or to knock hours off kill counts only. If your macroing your magery, blacksmithy or w/e else, then so be it, thats fine. But macroing crap like this just to sell on your vendor is just total bs, and kinda hurts the game.

Crazy how it says theres always 800 people online but the dungeons always seem empty. I wander how many people macro to make money in this game? I farm constantly, and rarely am pkd, and rarely do I see other people. If you take out the afk part of making money, it could make the game a lot more fun, plus, its still technically era accurate, since OSI allowed absolutely no macroing whatsoever.

Its not resource gathering unattended, its resource buying unattended. This is a very important distinction, and is the very reason it is allowed when unattended resource gathering is not. Resource buying requires a two-way action. Player spends resource A to get resource B. In an unattended gathering situation, something is created from nothing. You have no wood, you swing an axe, you get a bundle of logs. Something is physically created within the shard, at no (or very little, in the case of tools like smiths hammers, shovels and hatchets) cost to the player.

Scenario A is allowed because there is no better gold sink in existence on this shard, or in era, than regs. Period. Scenario B is not allowed because you are not taking anything out of the game world, you are only creating.

This distinction is the key you are missing to this. The reason its allowed is its a two way sale -- this is exactly why AFK selling is not allowed as well.

As far as your macroing idea -- it has been stated that this is desired for this shard. However; how do you expect to police it? Most users aren't savvy enough to connect a UO client independent from Razor. Any kind of true policy against unattended macroing would require enough GM's to actually support this kind of seer activity. We simply don't have the manpower, being a free shard, to accomodate that. So, whether the macroing is desirable or not, its here to stay -- at least until a viable and simple package that doesn't include it is created.

Edit to add: I also have a theory about stock levels on most of the vendors, but its not seemingly low because of the reasons you think, in my opinion.

Vendor stock is an exact science, is known, and has been explained by staff several times. Vendor restock time is 50 minutes; vendor stock starts at a baseline, typically 20. If a vendor is bought out completely, at the end of the 50 minutes, it refreshes with an additional 9 at the next restock, 50 minutes later. So, 20 -> 29 -> 38 -> 47 so on and so forth. It is possible for this to build all the way up to 999 of the sold out item. If the item is NOT bought out before the 50 minute cycle ends, then ALL stock will be returned to baseline; reset to 20. This is not up for debate; this mechanic is well documented.

Now; enter newbies looking to buy regs. Most people tend to play in early evenings, so the vast majority of new players are likely to be on at the same time. They are all hitting the same shops, moments after eachother, and at best finding the next refresh.

Its been stated in this thread, and others, when they're finding them available, its only 20-30 of them. That's very very telling; that means that the vendor is not being bought out completely every hour.

Myself personally, I work a 3rd shift job, and my typical server time is from ~10 PM til server down CST, anywhere in that window. There is almost no competition for regs at the shops at that time of night. Personally, I have sat and waited for timers in shops while I'm at work, and caught many refreshes right after they hit. I have *NEVER* seen a vendor with stock higher than 250 of any reg.

So this means 2 things; 1) everyone is trying to hit the mage shops at very similar play times, making an artificial limit seem much more limiting than it actually is in reality, and 2) the AFK buyers are not nearly as prevalent as you people think they are; if they were, these timers would not be resetting back to default frequently. If you're only seeing 20-30 of a reg on a vendor, it means that not only were you not stopped by an AFK gatherer from getting what you want; that no AFK gatherer (or regular player for that matter) has been by in the last hour or so.

This is not the problem you think it is.

Menkaure wrote:Secondly, to the people who havent had problem finding regs, have you bought in bulk? Since I have returned to this server, I have NEVER seen a vendor with over 600 of one reg on it. Heres the other thing, back in OSI days, reg buying was always, kinda fun. There were always plenty to go around. So, why the heck on a server with 700-800 people are bulk regs impossible to get (from npcs) when, back in OSI days, with 5000-10000 people, it was a cinch? Either the reg restock on vendors is too slow, or these few reg gatherers really are ruining it for all. My opinion? Make macroing legal for "skill gain" or to knock hours off kill counts only. If your macroing your magery, blacksmithy or w/e else, then so be it, thats fine. But macroing crap like this just to sell on your vendor is just total bs, and kinda hurts the game.

You probably weren't here when the change to vendors came in. Now instead of doubling their amounts when sold out, vendors only increase their amounts by 9 every 50 minutes (instead of doubling every 30). So when sold out from 20 a vendor will go to 29, then when that's sold out, it'll go to 38, then 47, then 56 and then 65 (all this in 4hrs 10min). So if you see a vendor at 65 now, under the old mechanics you could have had him at 999 for three 30 minute cycles.

In a sense, afk reg buyers are helping to keep the vendors stock at a reasonable level. Imagine if you wanted to buy up a vendor to 500 of ea. reg with the current mechanics!!