UO Second Age

If there was an option to completely outlaw (any) afk macro I would vote for that. Games weren't supposed to be played "afk" But you have to now adays just to keep up with the people that use scripts/macros for everything. Remember that guy that used to play UO in 97' with just UO macros and hotkeys? Yeah he died, and was replaced by a computer. Now if you excuse me, I need to check my sparring macro

While I understand the desire to have a rule that prevents a wide variety of AFK macroing, there is no practical way to enforce such a rule, nor is it a wise idea to create such a cumbersome rule that has significant potential effect on what players are and aren't allowed to do. The reason we try to make our rules as precise as possible is to ensure that only the effects we are concerned about are addressed.

Of course, don't let my response keep the discussion from occurring.

Kaivan wrote:While I understand the desire to have a rule that prevents a wide variety of AFK macroing, there is no practical way to enforce such a rule

Kaivan, enlighten me please. How do you enforce the "no AFK resource gathering" rule, and what additional practical obstacles are in the way of enforcing the "no movement in macros" (#1) suggestion above?

Mikel123 wrote:

Kaivan wrote:While I understand the desire to have a rule that prevents a wide variety of AFK macroing, there is no practical way to enforce such a rule

Kaivan, enlighten me please. How do you enforce the "no AFK resource gathering" rule, and what additional practical obstacles are in the way of enforcing the "no movement in macros" (#1) suggestion above?

It's possible to track the creation of resources, and while it's possible to track the movements of players, the logging would be astoundingly high.

Kaivan wrote:It's possible to track the creation of resources

I'm not following. How does this help you enforce a no-AFK-resource-gathering rule?

Mikel123 wrote:

Kaivan wrote:It's possible to track the creation of resources

I'm not following. How does this help you enforce a no-AFK-resource-gathering rule?

By allowing us to check on those who are gathering resources to see if they are AFK.

[edited]

Best of luck all.

I hope that nothing I said stopped you from wanting to have a discussion on the subject.

Kaivan wrote:While I understand the desire to have a rule that prevents a wide variety of AFK macroing, there is no practical way to enforce such a rule, nor is it a wise idea to create such a cumbersome rule that has significant potential effect on what players are and aren't allowed to do. The reason we try to make our rules as precise as possible is to ensure that only the effects we are concerned about are addressed.

Of course, don't let my response keep the discussion from occurring.

Most players are willing to follow the rules, if they are laid out, regardless of whether they are difficult to enforce or not. This leaves a minority of players that just don't know better, or just don't care enough to follow the rules.

For the former, I have seen many players willing to "educate" the clueless through various means. Some more helpful than others...

For the latter, again, the players are good at reporting the cheaters to the Staff members....or just killing them repeatedly and laughing before they report them to Staff members. Practicality does not have to be a script that does it for you, nor does it have to be a perfect method. A lack of a perfect method should not be an excuse for a lack of doing one's best. You and I both know that many of those jailed came directly from players just looking out and reporting the cheaters...and not from a handy script that tracks "resource" creation, etc...

As far as these proposed rules being cumbersome, I fail to agree with this at all. Its only cumbersome for those who are unattended and trying to gain something other than skills. Working skills is essentially left alone in these proposals. Staff members are able to view a players backpack and bank box while talking to them to determine what is going on if someone gets reported to them.

So basically, its only cumbersome for those that want to get some gain by not playing the game and not interacting with the players in this MMORPG. Does anyone else see the irony in that statement?

Personally, I think that if you don't want to play and interact with the players of this shard, then you should probably go back to your console. This shard needs more interactive players and less zombies sucking up bandwidth. The Staff may not share these sentiments, though.

I guess it comes done to that, really.

While I don't agree with your position for many reasons, I'll just leave it at that for the sake of the discussion itself.

Light Shade wrote:

Kaivan wrote:While I understand the desire to have a rule that prevents a wide variety of AFK macroing, there is no practical way to enforce such a rule, nor is it a wise idea to create such a cumbersome rule that has significant potential effect on what players are and aren't allowed to do. The reason we try to make our rules as precise as possible is to ensure that only the effects we are concerned about are addressed.

Of course, don't let my response keep the discussion from occurring.

Most players are willing to follow the rules, if they are laid out, regardless of whether they are difficult to enforce or not. This leaves a minority of players that just don't know better, or just don't care enough to follow the rules.

For the former, I have seen many players willing to "educate" the clueless through various means. Some more helpful than others...

For the latter, again, the players are good at reporting the cheaters to the Staff members....or just killing them repeatedly and laughing before they report them to Staff members. Practicality does not have to be a script that does it for you, nor does it have to be a perfect method. A lack of a perfect method should not be an excuse for a lack of doing one's best. You and I both know that many of those jailed came directly from players just looking out and reporting the cheaters...and not from a handy script that tracks "resource" creation, etc...

As far as these proposed rules being cumbersome, I fail to agree with this at all. Its only cumbersome for those who are unattended and trying to gain something other than skills. Working skills is essentially left alone in these proposals. Staff members are able to view a players backpack and bank box while talking to them to determine what is going on if someone gets reported to them.

So basically, its only cumbersome for those that want to get some gain by not playing the game and not interacting with the players in this MMORPG. Does anyone else see the irony in that statement?

Personally, I think that if you don't want to play and interact with the players of this shard, then you should probably go back to your console. This shard needs more interactive players and less zombies sucking up bandwidth. The Staff may not share these sentiments, though.

I guess it comes done to that, really.

And I almost forgot why I had Lightshade on ignore!

Kaivan wrote:While I don't agree with your position for many reasons, I'll just leave it at that for the sake of the discussion itself.

Kavian I think he made a pretty good argument. Why not respond? As perhaps the single most influential liason to staff we have, can you not spare some time to address his points?

Elph wrote:

Kaivan wrote:While I don't agree with your position for many reasons, I'll just leave it at that for the sake of the discussion itself.

Kavian I think he made a pretty good argument. Why not respond? As perhaps the single most influential liason to staff we have, can you not spare some time to address his points?

It has nothing to do with not having the time to spare to address his points. It has more to do with the fact that any response from a staff member tends to halt any discussion on a subject, and I don't want to do that here.

Just responses that start with something like, "I have data proof that says you're wrong. I have obtained this data because I have access to things that you don't."

Those are the only staff responses that should stop a topic. At the same time, claiming you have data means that the burden is on you to show it to prove your claim.

GuardianKnight wrote:Just responses that start with something like, "I have data proof that says you're wrong. I have obtained this data because I have access to things that you don't."

Those are the only staff responses that should stop a topic. At the same time, claiming you have data means that the burden is on you to show it to prove your claim.

Typically a response from a staff member is perceived as a hard statement about something that most players take as an end to the conversation. In many cases, it really is a statement and further discussion on that subject is typically meaningless. However, responses are often misinterpreted to mean that when they are aren't, which stops the conversation.