Hidden costs of townships

[TI_Smithy]

Addons have a very steep cost to aquire.

I know we had to pay several million GP's and hundreds of thousands of ingots and boards to get C^V's addons. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I'll tell you it took us months to put together.

But the material cost is irrelevant. What you really need to do is win the shard over, because addons don't go up unless the shard's users (that means the players), approve them. <--- Now THAT is the real hidden cost, and the hardest part of the process, ask K^A and WL if not (they were both turned down on petitions they made).

So, no, it's not free shit.

Don't cry me a river about hundreds of thousands of ingots and boards. Unless you approached millions of ingots and boards, then I can see the value if each structure cost that amount. 1 mill iron ingots at premium (7gp per) would only cost 7 million. Boards, pff 2gp each.

In comparison to other unique items it is only fair market assessment. Otherwise the services that townships are offering in exchange for exorbitant fees is not being rendered, hence free shit.

[Pirul]

Cry you a river? What part of:

But the material cost is irrelevant. ...

did you not understand?

EDIT: Not to mention, this "free shit" cannot be converted into gold, thus it is not our "free shit", and if you'd lilke to gage "the services that townships are offering", you might want to take a look through some of these:

viewtopic.php?f=45&t=37050
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=34937
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=36113
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=32529
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=27507
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=25962
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=23760

Plus a number of events/hunts/staged fights/etc. that were put together spontaneously, and with no attached thread to it.

But I will grant you something: Once a guild lets its town fall or are sold, the add-ons should fall with it (ie. TB and Shadowmire).

[Blaise]

But I will grant you something: Once a guild lets its town fall or are sold, the add-ons should fall with it (ie. TB and Shadowmire).

Agreed.

[GuardianKnight]

Can you people go one week without complaining about something that the staff isn't doing for you? Show me that you can go one week without the community being OFFENDED!! OFFENDED I SAY!! about something that they don't like about staff decisions.

[aghost]

IMHO the addons are nothing more than pixels to look at thus cause no harm to me or my play style.

are these town and addons offending because they hold that spot where you could place a home? without buying on forums from other players? most homes and houses are empty and being refreshed when needed .. so where is the harm at again??




Flame On!!

[TI_Smithy]

Cry you a river? What part of:

But the material cost is irrelevant. ...

did you not understand?

EDIT: Not to mention, this "free shit" cannot be converted into gold, thus it is not our "free shit", and if you'd lilke to gage "the services that townships are offering", you might want to take a look through some of these:

viewtopic.php?f=45&t=37050
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=34937
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=36113
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=32529
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=27507
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=25962
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=23760

Plus a number of events/hunts/staged fights/etc. that were put together spontaneously, and with no attached thread to it.

But I will grant you something: Once a guild lets its town fall or are sold, the add-ons should fall with it (ie. TB and Shadowmire).

So running a few events should grandfather your addons? Your guild members slowly leave and I can almost guarantee that many of the houses that are standing shouldn't be. Under normal circumstances refreshing a friend's home is always fine; however once it becomes a matter of refreshing homes to hold addons it becomes a different story. I do not know how you guys got away with it but there should of been restrictions in place that would insure townships would not fall under the control of a small number of players. The whole point of the township was to provide a place for the community to gather around, a focus point. The moment these towns reached critical lows the addons should of been stripped away. Continuing to hold these addons is reason enough for the small band of house refreshers to jump on every week and get to work. Out with the old, in with the new.

--Who is controlling home ownership? What is to stop Pirul or another guild GM from taking over house ownership and becoming a single proprietor over a township?

Can you people go one week without complaining about something that the staff isn't doing for you? Show me that you can go one week without the community being OFFENDED!! OFFENDED I SAY!! about something that they don't like about staff decisions.

The staff is supposed to collect fees, something that the community knew when townships were voted in. Staff has not been collecting fees and therefore any prior community approval should be null and void.

IMHO the addons are nothing more than pixels to look at thus cause no harm to me or my play style.

are these town and addons offending because they hold that spot where you could place a home? without buying on forums from other players? most homes and houses are empty and being refreshed when needed .. so where is the harm at again??

Flame On!!

Folks pay millions for colored furniture and potted plants. My argument was simply that the payment of townships was insignificant compared to what others would pay to get addons outside of their homes. In response to this some would argue that the services rendered by the townships IN THE PAST are adequate enough to keep these addons.

[Pirul]

I do not know how you guys got away with it but there should of been restrictions in place that would insure townships would not fall under the control of a small number of players. The whole point of the township was to provide a place for the community to gather around, a focus point. The moment these towns reached critical lows the addons should of been stripped away. Continuing to hold these addons is reason enough for the small band of house refreshers to jump on every week and get to work. Out with the old, in with the new.

--Who is controlling home ownership? What is to stop Pirul or another guild GM from taking over house ownership and becoming a single proprietor over a township?

We owned all the houses before getting addons. We payed out the ass for some of them. We fought off people when some others went IDOC and fell, so we could replace. Wa have worked our asses off to own all those houses. THEN we held numerous events, and plan to continue doing so once RL gets a bit more settled for some of us. We paid for the add-ons, and are able and willing to pay the upkeep associated with them whenever and whatever staff decide to charge us.

What is it to you if I, or 2 or 6 (and just for clarity the number is 8 ) of us control the whole area? We're well within our number of permitted houses. I'll be the first to tell you that if anything is sold, the add-ons should be removed. Not a single house has fallen, nor are they for sale, nor will they ever be as long as C^V exists.

Staff has not been collecting fees and therefore any prior community approval should be null and void.

Why should the player's approval be void because staff has been more busy providing YOU with a more accurate playing ground than creating a mechanic from scratch to take gold from my bank? Who died and made YOU King to make rules and speak for the whole community?

Folks pay millions for colored furniture and potted plants. My argument was simply that the payment of townships was insignificant compared to what others would pay to get addons outside of their homes. In response to this some would argue that the services rendered by the townships IN THE PAST are adequate enough to keep these addons.

Stop being so mad, brah.

Better yet, take a stroll through our town so you can see that the decorations there are not blocking the placement of any houses, or better yet, shop at some of our wonderful vendors, hang out with friends at our tavern, or use one of our 3 rune libraries around Vesper to move about.

You can be visitor 20,013 at our Guild House, or 40,698 at our L-Shape Rune Library, or 80,410 at our Keep rune library! (BTW, I'm not making these numbers up, those are the real numbers of visitors those establishments have)

But then again, you might not be one of the thousands of visitors we have received in our town and who still appreciate the well stocked vendors and completeness and accuracy of our runebooks, and just want add-ons removed because you don't (can't) have any.

Maybe it is because we kicked you out of the guild for breaking our rules, or something...I don't know...you just sound mad.

[Light Shade]

I <3 Pirul.

TI_SMITHY: When you or your friends host 14 events in a single week, get back to us. When ya's host a single resist session...let alone nearly a dozen, get back to us. When you take part in the planning of multi-guild shard-wide events that run for weeks, get back to us. When you DONATE millions of your own money to GIVE the players of this shard trophies and rewards for events, get back to us. When you spend dozens of hours upon dozens of hours setting up 3 rune libraries to help out the players of this shard, get back to us. When you or your friends chaperone dozens and perhaps hundreds of new players to this shard on hunts that you certainly don't need to go on, get back to us. When you spend a significant amount of time on the forums and in IRC answering new players questions and helping them get started, get back to us. When you give away the VAST majority of everything you earn in this game to help out other players and create fun events for them, get back to us.

Try walking in our shoes and doing what we've done. You're about .000034% of the way there in shard contributions. Let us know when you get there. If, when you actually know what you're talking about and still have the same opinions, then perhaps someone will take you seriously. Until then, you're just a joke that is ignorant of reality.

-L/S

[TI_Smithy]

We owned all the houses before getting addons. We payed out the ass for some of them. We fought off people when some others went IDOC and fell, so we could replace. Wa have worked our asses off to own all those houses. THEN we held numerous events, and plan to continue doing so once RL gets a bit more settled for some of us. We paid for the add-ons, and are able and willing to pay the upkeep associated with them whenever and whatever staff decide to charge us.

What is it to you if I, or 2 or 6 (and just for clarity the number is 8 ) of us control the whole area? We're well within our number of permitted houses. I'll be the first to tell you that if anything is sold, the add-ons should be removed. Not a single house has fallen, nor are they for sale, nor will they ever be as long as C^V exists.

That may be so but there is no regulation controlling this when there should of been. (Townships being owned by less and less players)

Why should the player's approval be void because staff has been more busy providing YOU with a more accurate playing ground than creating a mechanic from scratch to take gold from my bank? Who died and made YOU King to make rules and speak for the whole community?

Stop being so mad, brah.

Better yet, take a stroll through our town so you can see that the decorations there are not blocking the placement of any houses, or better yet, shop at some of our wonderful vendors, hang out with friends at our tavern, or use one of our 3 rune libraries around Vesper to move about.

You can be visitor 20,013 at our Guild House, or 40,698 at our L-Shape Rune Library, or 80,410 at our Keep rune library! (BTW, I'm not making these numbers up, those are the real numbers of visitors those establishments have)

But then again, you might not be one of the thousands of visitors we have received in our town and who still appreciate the well stocked vendors and completeness and accuracy of our runebooks, and just want add-ons removed because you don't (can't) have any.

Maybe it is because we kicked you out of the guild for breaking our rules, or something...I don't know...you just sound mad.

This should be staffs primary concern. Making sure the crap they allowed to happen functions as it was designed to. Players approval was 2 years ago, sentiments change. All I see when I walk through C^V town is a dead vesper strip with overpriced vendors.

I actually use the C^V libraries quite regularly. What does that have to do with addons? and no, this was never a direct attack towards C^V, you just may of been used as an example.. anything it is a testament to your good will that you are here defending your town

"simply that the payment of townships was insignificant compared to what others would pay to get addons outside of their homes"...payment through community actions in the past never should of been a reason to GF addons

[TI_Smithy]

I <3 Pirul.

TI_SMITHY: When you or your friends host 14 events in a single week, get back to us. When ya's host a single resist session...let alone nearly a dozen, get back to us. When you take part in the planning of multi-guild shard-wide events that run for weeks, get back to us. When you DONATE millions of your own money to GIVE the players of this shard trophies and rewards for events, get back to us. When you spend dozens of hours upon dozens of hours setting up 3 rune libraries to help out the players of this shard, get back to us. When you or your friends chaperone dozens and perhaps hundreds of new players to this shard on hunts that you certainly don't need to go on, get back to us. When you spend a significant amount of time on the forums and in IRC answering new players questions and helping them get started, get back to us. When you give away the VAST majority of everything you earn in this game to help out other players and create fun events for them, get back to us.

Try walking in our shoes and doing what we've done. You're about .000034% of the way there in shard contributions. Let us know when you get there. If, when you actually know what you're talking about and still have the same opinions, then perhaps someone will take you seriously. Until then, you're just a joke that is ignorant of reality.

-L/S

I am pretty sure I can shit castle deeds, so you telling me I need a group, a town, and community approval to get some pixel crack.. pay little to nothing and get to keep it when the primary cost (community involvement) dries up

[WiseOne]

I am pretty sure I can shit castle deeds

I R NU PLZ POOP ON ME

[Light Shade]

I am pretty sure I can shit castle deeds

I knew you were full of it, but if i'd known it was castle deeds I might have been a little bit nicer.

[VoP Denizen]

I am pretty sure I can shit castle deeds, so you telling me I need a group, a town, and community approval to get some pixel crack.. pay little to nothing and get to keep it when the primary cost (community involvement) dries up

Anybody else notice a lack of a complete thought here? So you telling us we need a sewer system as can handle castle sized dookies? Not sure where you're headed with this rant m'lord. But it seems your train of thought never even got out of the mire.

[TI_Smithy]

I am pretty sure I can shit castle deeds, so you telling me I need a group, a town, and community approval to get some pixel crack.. pay little to nothing and get to keep it when the primary cost (community involvement) dries up

Anybody else notice a lack of a complete thought here? So you telling us we need a sewer system as can handle castle sized dookies? Not sure where you're headed with this rant m'lord. But it seems your train of thought never even got out of the mire.

You are truly blessed if you have a sewer system. Everyday the boy makes his rounds and burns/stirs the poo away.

[Boondock_Saint]

I am hereby volunteering to collect fees from existing player townships.





That is all.