UO Second Age

Faust wrote:

MatronDeWinter wrote: I don't think there should be any special grandfathering of these items, there have been dozens of other changes decreasing the value of things that did not get a special "grandfather", why would this be any different. If a special case was made on pre-existing clothing bless deeds, then the shard has just introduced an(other) unique item that did not exist in T2A.

There does not need to be a huge debate here. Blessed items were breakable in era, ergo, they should be breakable here.

+1

+2 son

Just a couple of small notes:

• Clothing bless deeds were not a part of the Young Player System. The original prizes can be found here, and an update to the prizes that removed the Ranger Armor and replaced it with a spellbook containing the first 4 circles of spells can be found here.
• While clothing bless deeds themselves were common during T2A, this is only because of the fact that there was an initial flood of clothing bless deeds all at once. In a matter of a few months after the introduction of these clothing bless deeds they were extremely rare due to having been used up from their initial limited supply. In that sense, if we do decide to introduce CBDs, they wouldn't be introduced in such a way to keep them at a statically common value. They would be introduced in a manner similar to how it happened on OSI.

BF's point is that the cost of obtaining the items here is so prohibitively high vis-a-vis actual t2a, that they cannot really be considered the same thing. The huge price differential - the deeds on uosa cost 60 times as much as they did - paired with the assurances from staff that the blessd items would not be able to be destroyed, surely is enough to forward an argument that altough both items bear the same name in game, they really are not the same item. The vastly differing circumstances under which the two types of deeds are obtained further bolsters this position.

Obviously, I have a vested interest in this agument. I don't think it I fair to pull a bait and switch on players, an I think the 6000% price difference between the items in era and the items in uosa is sufficient to warrant different treatment.

If the server is moving towards the direction of total era-accuracy (well, close to), and we all know that blessed items broke in t2a, then this should have been expected.

I don't think the staff would ever say "clothing blessed will never be breakable", it was probably more along the lines of "[currently] clothing blessed items will not break".

I have a vested interest in this as well (as owner of blessed clothing), but I don't think it's fair to grant veteren players special items (in a sense). I don't think they should be grandfathered at all. A patch changed the other day introducing a bug allowing a player to get into my otherwise secure castle-courtyard (no not by teleporting off a tower), some of us spent a great deal of time/effort making thief characters only to find stealth-snoop nerfed, and many people owned expensive 10 charge black dye tubs prior to the distribution of infinite-charge tubs. Why should this really be any different??

It shouldn't.

Just because at the time, game mecanics made my home secure, and snooping was possible from a stealth, and charged black tubs (that people spent silver on) were of high value, does not mean that the staff made a promise on the subject.

Kaivan wrote:Just a couple of small notes:

• Clothing bless deeds were not a part of the Young Player System. The original prizes can be found here, and an update to the prizes that removed the Ranger Armor and replaced it with a spellbook containing the first 4 circles of spells can be found here.
• While clothing bless deeds themselves were common during T2A, this is only because of the fact that there was an initial flood of clothing bless deeds all at once. In a matter of a few months after the introduction of these clothing bless deeds they were extremely rare due to having been used up from their initial limited supply. In that sense, if we do decide to introduce CBDs, they wouldn't be introduced in such a way to keep them at a statically common value. They would be introduced in a manner similar to how it happened on OSI.

I don't see the new player tickets that came with the young player system in the link you provided Kaivan.

Are you mistaking the CUB ticket system with the newbie ticket system?

Pretty positive the clothing bless deed was a part of this system. I used to abuse it extensively just for those CBD's.

Faust wrote:

Kaivan wrote:Just a couple of small notes:

• Clothing bless deeds were not a part of the Young Player System. The original prizes can be found here, and an update to the prizes that removed the Ranger Armor and replaced it with a spellbook containing the first 4 circles of spells can be found here.
• While clothing bless deeds themselves were common during T2A, this is only because of the fact that there was an initial flood of clothing bless deeds all at once. In a matter of a few months after the introduction of these clothing bless deeds they were extremely rare due to having been used up from their initial limited supply. In that sense, if we do decide to introduce CBDs, they wouldn't be introduced in such a way to keep them at a statically common value. They would be introduced in a manner similar to how it happened on OSI.

I don't see the new player tickets that came with the young player system in the link you provided Kaivan.

Are you mistaking the CUB ticket system with the newbie ticket system?

Pretty positive the clothing bless deed was a part of this system. I used to abuse it extensively just for those CBD's.

It's towards the bottom labeled "New Player Tickets". You're probably thinking of the hair restyle deeds which were a prize off that system but looked identical to clothing bless deeds.

Actually, you're right Kaivan... it was the hair restyle coupon, my bad.

Fwerp wrote:Obviously, I have a vested interest in this agument. I don't think it I fair to pull a bait and switch on players, an I think the 6000% price difference between the items in era and the items in uosa is sufficient to warrant different treatment.

Both items allow you to keep an item of clothing upon death, how should they be treated any different? Because of price?

Should tinker tools be treated any differently because at one point the tool set was actually a rare, and now its a common 3gp item?

Crystal balls? Soon-to-be barrels?

The current goal of UOSA is for era-accuracy, and nothing will ever be truly 'set in stone' because someone will always find some new patch or newsgroup which mentions otherwise. This includes implementing clothing bless deeds as creating blessed indestructible items when they really shouldn't have been indestructible to begin with.

"Both items allow you to keep an item of clothing upon death, how should they be treated any different? Because of price?"

Because they were obtained through vastly differing circumstancEs. One was given out - the other requires arduously gathering trophies from non-era accurate events. As such the items do not do the exact same thing, and the rigging behavior is justified by the vastly differing difficulty of obtaining them.

Fwerp wrote:"Both items allow you to keep an item of clothing upon death, how should they be treated any different? Because of price?"

Because they were obtained through vastly differing circumstancEs. One was given out - the other requires arduously gathering trophies from non-era accurate events. As such the items do not do the exact same thing, and the rigging behavior is justified by the vastly differing difficulty of obtaining them.

Derrick isn't going to start handing out CBDs, so having blessed items is still going to be a 'privilege' on UOSA for those who can afford them.

The only thing that changes is that those blessed items will no longer be [indestructible] which is being proven as era-accurate. Derrick has already mentioned how you can easily negate damage from being done to blessed items, this will almost be a non-factor unless you pvp nude in blessed sandals or a blessed mask.

if blessed items were to become breakable, it would become nearly pointless to try and obtain them because of the amount of time/effort involved in obtaining silver. realistically, nobody is going to pay upwards of 3mil gold for an item that they have to take off everytime they engage in combat. they might as well not exist. if we are to make blessed items breakable, then obtaining them (for a short period of time at least) should become considerably easier. after all, that too was era accurate was it not?

marmalade wrote:if blessed items were to become breakable, it would become nearly pointless to try and obtain them because of the amount of time/effort involved in obtaining silver. realistically, nobody is going to pay upwards of 3mil gold for an item that they have to take off everytime they engage in combat. they might as well not exist. if we are to make blessed items breakable, then obtaining them (for a short period of time at least) should become considerably easier. after all, that too was era accurate was it not?

There is plenty of market for "pointless" items. Some of the most expensive items ever sold on the trade board have no practical purpose whatsoever.

Inconsistencies aside... it doesn't matter. They were breakable in 1999, they'll be breakable here.

Nothing changes except you might want to consider taking it off when you fight people in the actual game.

You can still wear your best neon to the events.

I don't think this is going to be implemented, because it is simply unfair to the players that have invested huge amounts of time and effort into obtaining the blessed items. The prohibitively high price of obtaining the items would simply not be justified except under the current system, and it is not UOSA's policy to change items that are obtained in game (especially through an artificial, GM run system). That is why players have overpowered green dragons, era-inaccurate glacial staves, and brightly colored sandals.

Nobody would have purchased bless deed that behaved the way they did in era at the price they cost here -- and we were told again and again when we were purchasing them that they would behave as they do here.

I really do not see Derrick making this alteration, and I certainly do not see it happening without grandfathering.

Fwerp wrote:I don't think this is going to be implemented, because it is simply unfair to the players that have invested huge amounts of time and effort into obtaining the blessed items. The prohibitively high price of obtaining the items would simply not be justified except under the current system, and it is not UOSA's policy to change items that are obtained in game (especially through an artificial, GM run system). That is why players have overpowered green dragons, era-inaccurate glacial staves, and brightly colored sandals.

Nobody would have purchased bless deed that behaved the way they did in era at the price they cost here -- and we were told again and again when we were purchasing them that they would behave as they do here.

I really do not see Derrick making this alteration, and I certainly do not see it happening without grandfathering.

+1