Era Accurate Terminology

[Faust]

Like I mentioned in my original post, perfect era accuracy is the main goal here, but it seems to be more of a general goal than a strict goal. Right now there are exceptions to this goal (i.e. guild chat, party system, certain bugs that aren't included - hide repair for example). If we're going to have exceptions to era accuracy we should probably figure out a way to determine why these exceptions would be considered acceptable, or just have no exceptions at all. Those could be two examples of directions for the shard to go.

Honestly, this shard doesn't aim to recreate perfect accuracy according to your definition. This is something that isn't possible since this in a way is almost your entire list compiled into one section. You cannot recreate the same atmosphere for each and every single person that existed in '99, especially the social aspect. This shard is only replicating mechanical accuracy. IE: the same code that existed during November '99. UO Second Age is like bringing up a shard on EA servers right now that is being reversed engineered back to a specific time frame. The shard is creating an environment for new experiences to be made in a t2a surrounding for a specific time frame.

Party and guild chat are due to be removed as many other features that are known to be inaccurate or found to be in the future. The latest patch note written by Derrick even mentions that both chat systems are on the chopping block.

I'm not quite sure where you got the impression that this shard is aiming to replicate 'perfect accuracy' by your definition.

[Stuck]

Honestly, this shard doesn't aim to recreate perfect accuracy according to your definition. This is something that isn't possible since this in a way is almost your entire list compiled into one section. You cannot recreate the same atmosphere for each and every single person that existed in '99, especially the social aspect.

Right, I made note of the fact that perfect era accuracy would be impossible to achieve. It's impossible to make anything perfect, but we can still have it as a goal, which we do. It's just there as an ideal.

This shard is only replicating mechanical accuracy. IE: the same code that existed during November '99. UO Second Age is like bringing up a shard on EA servers right now that is being reversed engineered back to a specific time frame. The shard is creating an environment for new experiences to be made in a t2a surrounding for a specific time frame.

This is why I specifically wrote: "This is impossible to achieve." right next to social accuracy and economic accuracy. Hopefully they prove to be useful terms in discussing things like this though.

[Psilo]

Faust, exactly. We can't replicate the social aspect, that's why removing guild chat is a very bad idea. It will chop the community even more. You can go on about "well they can get IRC" or "they can get ICQ". But the fact is they won't, many people won't. They will just log in and think "oh wow no guild chat". And log out, since this isn't 1999 as I have said people don't have the luxury of seeing people everywhere they go. That can make you feel lonely, guild chat is an awesome feature for this shard. You have no clue how well guild chat helps UOSA.

Mechanical accuracy isn't worth a damn without the community of the shard. We need to be able to converge together quickly to cause more player interaction, whether it be meeting at a guild house, PVM, PVP(calling help to fend off 5 ventrilo pks). You guys are being very realistic when you just say "ERA ACCURACY" and don't even think about the consequences of removing guild chat.

Party and guild chat are due to be removed as many other features that are known to be inaccurate or found to be in the future.

The latest patch note written by Derrick even mentions that both chat systems are on the chopping block.

Nothing is final, it could very well be kept. I hope Derrick makes the right decision, if guild chat is removed that means I'm going to have to work harder to get more people on this shard. More advertising...to make up for all the people that are either going to go more inactive or quit because IRC is really boring and it sucks you in. Look at how many people talk in IRC all day, I don't get it....

[Faust]

The removal of guild and party chat will have very little if any impact on player count. The majority of the players know what to expect when coming to this shard. These are features that never existed. Those that never played wouldn't have a clue in the first place since they never played and wouldn't even notice. The people they communicate with will be using the available tools that are used for communication and will direct these new players to get these tools in order for them to communicate. There really is no excuse for the current playerbase of the shard when it comes to these features. Have said this many time... would definitely migrate to a new form of communication ahead of time if you rely heavily on either of the two.

Both chat systems are inaccurate game mechanics that allow for way too many exploits to take place on top of it.

I really don't want to argue this aspect of the game in this thread though.. there are plenty of other discussions going on with it currently. However, don't get your hopes up that it won't end up getting chopped. If Derrick ends up conceding ont his issue he might as well throw the towel in for the rest...

[Psilo]

If Derrick ends up conceding ont his issue he might as well throw the towel in for the rest...

Meh that's not very good reasoning. I am certainly glad we didn't abandon era accuracy after adding Events. Saying "Oh but events are outside of Brittania" is utter nonsense. We don't have vote stones inside brit bank, but yet we have tournament stones in Jhelom. Those never existed in 1997-1999 I am 100% sure they didn't! Next to that, silver never existed in 1999, and what about the status message every hour regarding events beginning, ending and who got the most points! The ones that annoy RPers and other players when they have nothing to do with them.

With the reasoning that "people should know what to expect". I then we should remove ALL event status messages because any pvper or CTFers "should know what to expect" as far as the times for these events. They are on the website!

Events are really a drag and shouldn't be interrupting normal play at all with silly messages.

[Faust]

We have been down the event road many times over now in regard to mechanics and policy. No need to continue that discussion.

Also, plenty here know my current objections to the current events that should be moved out of an instance based status.

Derrick has the right to create any special item he wants even if this item is silver. There were hundreds of different items from one server to next making this another policy issue.

Accuracy only applies when it's universal from one shard to the next since we are only replicating the exact code OSI used not the policies they chose.

[Mens Rea]

I think a living breathing system to determine which changes are implemented would take away from the dictatorship that appears to be The Faust Age.

Sure, he's charged with the unenviable task of implementing changes.

But quite often changes are implemented in a manner that is unpredictable and leads to the shard reflecting a "T2A amalgam".

At any rate, socialism was here in the beginning. You know, someone sits at the top deciding what people get and the rest of us just sit there and take it.

[Faust]

No history determines what this shard ends up getting implement that solely depends on each and every person here including the staff to find the evidence for the game mechanics.

You can boast The Faust Age all you want, but the facts remain that a huge majority of people prefer the current approach over anything else. The only people that object to this development cycle are those that want a t2a era that never existed throwing in their favorite features that ultimately will destroy a shard. The goal of this shard is simple, replicate the time period based on the most popular period of the era and that's it.

[Mens Rea]

...replicate the time period based on the most popular period of the era and that's it.

My question for Faust is... what is the most popular period of the era?

And, how do you quantify that answer?

[Faust]

T2a is memorable for insta hit and precasting, this is a clear fact.

The era was more developed towards the middle/end portion of the era and it's the most famous part of the era to most people.

This is the reason this time frame was chosen and since other items like runebooks, etc... was already implemented the November '99 part of the era was chosen by the staff here. Honestly, my opinion would be the last patch of '99 in December and before the first patch in '00 but that's just me.

[MatronDeWinter]

I second that this "time period" is not even close to my (and many others) definition of "popular". It's entirely subjective, and immediately biased towards pvp. The dates were determined by Pre-cast and Insta-hit afterall.

[Faust]

What time period is better to you?

We all know insta hit and precasting is the most famous aspect of the t2a era and the first thing that comes to mind for +99% of the players for specific game mechanics with in it.

This isn't even questionable at all.

PS
Both of these features are not just pvp oriented.

[Mikel123]

I know I don't dare question a [completely subjective] "fact", but for me the most memorable aspects of T2A wa the time period before lockdowns and secures (i.e. stealing a key = robbing an entire house) and, you know, the whole freaking new continent they added.

Matron is correct, and I'll repeat what I said earlier in another post, which is that the pvp crowd vastly overrates their portion of the population and importance to the game. Precasting is 100% a pvp-oriented feature/bug... how many times do you precast when fighting a lich? 95% of UO players didn't have UOA back then, and the UO built-in arm/disarm macro was a pain in the rear to use. Leaving a spell loaded and having to manually drag-and-drop a weapon off of your paperdoll, then click on yourself or your status bar, is not really that effective.

Insta-hit, I'm sure a lot more people remember this effect, but was really only important for fighting the top monsters with the drive-by halberd method. For fighting something you're reasonably equipped to fight, you just stand toe-to-toe and things like damage-per-second are far more important.

Anyways, these things were only of marginal importance to players who fought; forget about those who played merchants, crafters, thieves, or any number of role-playing characters.

[BlackFoot]

I am not l33t pvpers but risk v reward (no trammel), insta hit and precast are what comes to mind when i think of t2a.

[Faust]

I know I don't dare question a [completely subjective] "fact", but for me the most memorable aspects of T2A wa the time period before lockdowns and secures (i.e. stealing a key = robbing an entire house) and, you know, the whole freaking new continent they added.

The housing system that was purely key oriented was only active for a couple months after t2a was released and they key actually didn't lock items down for about a month after it's release... The current housing system on UOSA minus the co-owners is the same system that was added in December '98. The housing system you speak of was minaly a pre-t2a/dread lord days system for the majority of the time in UO. I honestly don't see how anyone could associate only a month or two of a certain feature during the t2a era as one of its core components. You would assume core components are features that existed for the majority of the era.

Also, farming lich lords with my tank mage for fame/karma was great for precasting. Using a vanq silver hally that couldn't be stolen and hitting on the lich lord for the extra dps while your ev was up holding a precasted dispel spell was used many times... Farmed many liches with a dex monkey using prep heals and my silver weapons.

Precasting and insta hit both are not just pvp oriented features of the game.......