Problems with the Rogue class

[Hemperor]

it always amazes that I played in the same era as all you guys, and I was so woefully ignorant of so many things. I wish I remembered more about UO back then, but as far as I can recall, I don't remember a damn thing. I don't remember house looting, zero-delay, teleporting into/out of tower eaves, onto house roofs, etc. I was minding my own business, playing the game, and meanwhile there was this entire other game going on.

No joke, if I had a time machine, I think the first thing I would use it to do would be to travel back to 1998 and play UO for a couple years with my current knowledge.

I think the majority of us can relate to that, I was ALWAYS a swords/tamer noob running around 99% of the time in the Britain region.

Great work in this topic.

[Derrick]

Indeed there are some good finds in this thread:

• Forensics should not detect perma-grey
• Snooping should reveal
• Thief title should show karma level

Without some shocking new revealation, these will go in the "little stuff" patch.

[lownslowneon]

it always amazes that I played in the same era as all you guys, and I was so woefully ignorant of so many things. I wish I remembered more about UO back then, but as far as I can recall, I don't remember a damn thing. I don't remember house looting, zero-delay, teleporting into/out of tower eaves, onto house roofs, etc. I was minding my own business, playing the game, and meanwhile there was this entire other game going on.

No joke, if I had a time machine, I think the first thing I would use it to do would be to travel back to 1998 and play UO for a couple years with my current knowledge.

I think the majority of us can relate to that, I was ALWAYS a swords/tamer noob running around 99% of the time in the Britain region.

Great work in this topic.

x2... these "Era Accurate" battles always amaze me as I can't remember a whole lot from OSI... just running around as a noob.

I was never filthy rich on OSI lol.

[DarkWing]

Indeed there are some good finds in this thread:

• Forensics should not detect perma-grey
• Snooping should reveal
• Thief title should show karma level

Without some shocking new revealation, these will go in the "little stuff" patch.

You only need about 30 skill points in Forensic Evaluation to detect if a player is in The thieves Guild!

if not for Detecting Perma-Grey! what is GM Forensic good for? other than seeing who picked a lock?

We have had Players who have had Detectives on OSI During T2A State that Forensic Does indeed reveal Perma Grey at High Levels!
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10471&start=15
its true you cannot always believe what Stratics has Printed!

so most of the changes made here have been from the experiences of the players that have played during the Era!

[Hicha]

its true you cannot always believe what Stratics has Printed!

so most of the changes made here have been from the experiences of the players that have played during the Era!

These era-accurate discussions usually boil down to internet caches of newsgroups versus way-back-when website links and in the end whoever can find more references to their point of view are usually correct.

[Brules]

Indeed there are some good finds in this thread:

• Forensics should not detect perma-grey
• Snooping should reveal
• Thief title should show karma level

Without some shocking new revealation, these will go in the "little stuff" patch.

Wooooooah there big fella......the only *proof* posted about forensic eval not revealing perma grey were several google group posts ALL dating from 2000, which is after our cut off date, and in no way shape or form proof in any sense of the word. I dont see any OSI patch note links, dev chat, code being discussed. All of those posts Matron linked seem to insinuate that OSI had recently nerfed the skill, but nothing more than that is discussed.

Basing a change off of a google groups dating OUTSIDE of the cut off date seems pretty weak. The proof for the snooping revealing is much more concrete and compelling as it is actual dev chats.

I would like to see more proof about forensics before any changes are made....

[nightshark]

I know for sure Matron is correct about the titles. Your professional title should never display in the thieves guild, but your Fame/Karma title should always should. Didn't even realise it doesn't show, I thought that was just a myUOSA bug.

if not for Detecting Perma-Grey! what is GM Forensic good for? other than seeing who picked a lock?

Seeing who looted a corpse, of course

[MatronDeWinter]

The only place that indicates that Forensics did anything of the sort, is one single stratics essay, and a bunch of rumors that somehow came to be, likely from the stratics essay (much like the whole "eating helps your skill gain" myth). It is NOT noted in OSI patch notes, it would not perform this way in the demo, and personal accounts from the newsgroups indicate it was rather pointless. I honestly have no idea how that slipped into the game in the first place, and I stand by my saying that it has never revealed the perma-noteriety of a thief. The stealth/snoop thing is actually much more ambiguous than the forensics issue. I weep for the players on the shard that have wasted skill points in such trivial skills as snooping, forensics, and stealth.

[tekai]

You mean like the stratics essay that they used to nerf tamers?

I currently and have always hated stratics...

[Brules]

Stratics essay > google gossip groups

[Bel'ni]

Most of the stratics detective essay was writen by me!

It may come as no little surprise that a thief (Heathwalker S!S) stole it and his detective posted it. I didn't care then, neither do i now

All i ask i don't nerf Forensics, because Matron thinks she is right. And proves this with links to posts (from after our cut off date), from people that most likely didn't (fully) understand the skill back than. How many people can say that they played a Detective full-time at OSI?

Forensics is almost Era Accurate, it misses the detection, if a thief is in the thievesguild at about 30 forensics. "This individual is a thief" is missing. (atleast i dont recall seeing it here at T2A)

Fix, dont nerve.

The other ways to detect perma grey was (before our cut-off date):
- stealing from the (perma grey) thief, when not in the thieves guild.
- Have him attacked by an archer bot...

I am willing to do some research on this (in game), to see if forensics and detecting perma grey works the way it was. Havent gotten the time yet to play full time my detective on T2A.

[Faust]

The other ways to detect perma grey was (before our cut-off date):
- stealing from the (perma grey) thief, when not in the thieves guild.

Are you saying this bug/feature to use stealing to detect a perma gray thief was fixed before our cutoff date or vice versa?

[Bel'ni]

Yes, that "bug" was fixed after our cut-off date.