Second Age: An Entirely Different Game - A Dead Horse Kicked

[Caswallon]

It takes a minimum 2 weeks of solid all day gameplay to GM taming, and a thunter takes about 2 weeks due to the myriad of skill necessary[Music/Prov 3 days, carto 5 days, lockpicking 1-2 days, magery/resist 2 days], both these builds require start up funds for magery/resist/maps/lockpicks.

Those templates are not as quick build as you say, compared to a tank or dexxer, and a thunter can only dig maps he has, its not like you can make tmaps, so I fail to see the impact of that particular build in regards to what your saying, unless off course you mean in era thunter's were often hired for high level maps. As for the bard, that requires no resources, just 3 days macroing provo/music, start with 50 magery/resist and your good to go, so I certainly agree there. But a tank farming with EV's can almost match a bards income if they are using the right spawns. Then you have the impact that a significantly lower player base has on competition for spawn.

I do think the economy here is skewed however, the biggest player to player gold market was always smith goods, here everyone has a GM smith, even the mainly red players have personal smiths, so as you rightly point out, there is no market for smith goods. I think trade skills should be twice as hard as they currently are to discourage this, at the least the minimum skill values need to be corrected asap. Its too late to have an immediate effect for many but in 6 months time I think the effects would be noticeable.

[dexter4321]

If changes were made to eliminate these inaccurate features and restore gameplay to what it once was, we would soon begin to see more activity across the map...players going out and working for their skills, thus contributing to the game, adding challenge and increasing field fighting and returning a vital aspect back to the game: risk vs reward. We would see more demand for items in game, giving value back to crafters. Overall we would see challenge and competition restored to the game.

Yes but the thing is that because of razor and the "inaccurate features" it raises the bar to a higher level. Because people can easily GM skills it calls for a higher level of standards when taking the field. It in fact calls for more activity and even more difficult pvping. When everyone has their templates perfected, it's going to come down to the skill, the reaction time, the wit, and the gear you are wearing or using to claim victory on the field.

When people come here from another shard they do not want to sit around and take the time to get established with their templates and a good stash of gold. Most of them want to jump right into the action and get involved, and with razor this is possible in a very reasonable time. Hence will keep more people to stay here and be a part of uosa.

And also because everyone has their templates perfected for the most part, gives a lot more risk to the game. If you run into someone on the field chances are they are going to be pvpers, or noobs. And if they are pvpers then you have to assume of course their templates are perfected. Which makes being more cautious on the field the standard here.

You obviously have played here for some time and this forum account you are using is just to cover your true identity. You go take a stroll out in the field and you find out for yourself how much challenge and competition there is, I can assure you you will find what you are looking for.

[benny-]

You can GM a bard in days. Fine.

I dare you to try to GM a lockpicker in days. Or a Tamer. There's about 50 of each on this shard, which has been around for 2 years. That's not too many, in my eyes.

It takes a minimum 2 weeks of solid all day gameplay to GM taming, and a thunter takes about 2 weeks due to the myriad of skill necessary[Music/Prov 3 days, carto 5 days, lockpicking 1-2 days, magery/resist 2 days], both these builds require start up funds for magery/resist/maps/lockpicks.

You're right, it does take longer to train a t-hunter than say a bard, but compared to the slow progress of actual t2a gameplay, all of them can be made with relative ease, so whether its days or a couple weeks, its a rather trivial point to get into the details of it all. The point stands that the majority of gameplay here has been replaced with macroing and has obviously had a large impact on the shard.

I do think the economy here is skewed however, the biggest player to player gold market was always smith goods, here everyone has a GM smith, even the mainly red players have personal smiths, so as you rightly point out, there is no market for smith goods. I think trade skills should be twice as hard as they currently are to discourage this, at the least the minimum skill values need to be corrected asap. Its too late to have an immediate effect for many but in 6 months time I think the effects would be noticeable.

I completely agree and this is what I also had in mind when I mentioned how we would see competition and challenge restored. Obviously there are countless finished chars already here, no changes to the rules or systems would have an immediate effect, but given time, with new players coming, existing players making new chars, we would gradually see a shift in gameplay, with better interaction as a result.

You obviously have played here for some time and this forum account you are using is just to cover your true identity. You go take a stroll out in the field and you find out for yourself how much challenge and competition there is, I can assure you you will find what you are looking for.

In my initial post I mentioned I had been here for some time, I also mentioned I had looked for field pvp. Across the map, in dungeons, it was off and on at best...the only place with consistent players outside of town...brit gy. Which is why I mention a lack of overall activity on this shard. In place of hundreds of users actively playing to advance their char we have chars who do all their training at banks and houses...field pvp is generally a handful of pvpers looking for other pvpers. There's really little activity out there compared to what could be if more people had a reason to go out and actively play the game.

As for my identity...Im not trying to conceal anything, this is what I have originally gone by and posted under, thus why I resumed using this name. I also go by Elisud, Loedin, Ki'har, Nalfein and a slew of other names if you're that curious. =)

[dexter4321]

The fact that you are in PoV explains this entire thread. PoV are not real pvpers. They are a fake guild of blue anti-pks who run around playing candyland. That explains this wall you are talking about, I couldn't stand to be in PoV for more than a week. The guild you are in resembles your playstyle well and I am not surprised it has gotten old and boring for you. Oh and trust me, as far as the pvp action goes, it's there you just have to find it. But it's also going to be hard for a blue to run around expecting to find a pk around every corner. Most reds are predators, they do not go dancing around like most people. You are simply looking in all the wrong places, in all the wrong ways, and at the worst times.

Just because you don't see people plain as day like you want to, doesn't mean that they are all not active in the field. I see what you are saying trust me. I don't like town macroers anymore than you do. In fact I have killed hundreds of them recently. It's just not the way it works here, and to be honest the pvp here is sufficient, you just have to be patient when looking for it.

[Watatsumi]

Yeah come to think of it people did macro back in the day, I didn't even know much about mmo's though all I did was run around with a sword. But I am sure many people did the old paper weight on a use last item last target hotkey or whatever.

So pretty much like how you play UO today then?

[Orsi]

Ultima Online, then, now, and in the future, has never been about reaching 100% character completion, and the fact that you are able to achieve this easily on this shard is taken for granted. Ultima was and always will be about the challenge, trials, tribulations and the rewards of overcoming these obstacles. Remove the obstacles and there are no rewards.

The argument of it being unfair for newer players by making it harder is a very weak one. Any change that is made will always create a divide between those who were before the change and those who were after. The point of changing and implementing something is to correct behaviour which was intended, and the longer it does on without being changed the longer the wrong behaviour is reinforced.

To those who believe that Ultima Online and T2A is a diverse game, you are mistaken. Ultima and T2A are only capable of being a diverse game. This shard does not provide a contemporary ruleset which stimulates and encourages the diverse world and behaviours of 1999; the advent of easily attainable and officially supported third party programs removes the obstacles purposefully put in place by the original designers to prevent unwanted player advancement. The original world, excluding the second age lands, was built to contain thousands of players playing simultaneously. With only a few hundred players active and the inclusion of twice the land, the world will never come close to replicating the interaction of the era.

Unfortunately, the policies and the times do not go together as they did back in 1999 and today the context in which the game is played is drastically altered. The solution will never be black and white, but it is apparent that the current set-up is not a true representation of the era. To expect the same gameplay from 1999 when the environment has changed is wishful. Even popular sports have changed their rules with the times and the development of new strategies which ruined the game, look at hockey and basketball. Half of the problem is the fact that during that era changes were actually happening, your character could be powerful today but gimped tomorrow, and that cannot happen on this shard. You can't take a certain period of a world, freeze it, and hope to relive those experiences over again; it just isn't real.

So I suggest what I believe to be a rather ingenious solution to the problem of not being able to change the ruleset: keep the world changing by altering the ruleset to different periods of T2A. Keeps the illusion of change, it's rather simple, and most of all it is always accurate.

[Eulogy]

Wipe, and make all skills 10x harder to raise.

Please?

[Hemperor]

Agree with OP, although this is just about a weekly discussion around here. Skills are certainly easier to gain.

Challenge my "memory" with age however every essay and newsgroup posting describing gain rates and what needs to be done is always harder. You couldn't GM a combat in a matter of a few hours, that's for sure.

I believe OlMan said it best in the past, and I quote:
"Derrick knows we love to bot. If this ability was removed, we would stop playing."

This may not be true for all, however majority here enjoy being able to press "Play" and getting to the point they wish they were in OSI T2A. Character creation was much more than just figuring out how to make the macro and than pressing play. The largest dimension of UO seems lost to this shard, it's more of a player problem than "scripts".

[dexter4321]

Yeah come to think of it people did macro back in the day, I didn't even know much about mmo's though all I did was run around with a sword. But I am sure many people did the old paper weight on a use last item last target hotkey or whatever.

So pretty much like how you play UO today then?

Yeah pretty much, wanna fight about it?

[Eulogy]

IMO macros aren't the issue, its skill gain rate.

[dexter4321]

Skill rate is fine, remember it use to be a whole lot easier. Who cares as long as there is razor the skill gain is just a matter of time regardless of how hard it is to gain.

[benny-]

The fact that you are in PoV explains this entire thread. PoV are not real pvpers. They are a fake guild of blue anti-pks who run around playing candyland. That explains this wall you are talking about, I couldn't stand to be in PoV for more than a week. The guild you are in resembles your playstyle well and I am not surprised it has gotten old and boring for you.

Its funny how you actually attempted to come up with a relatively mature reply to my first few posts, but the moment you recognized that I had played in POV you turn this into a personal attack...POV reflects nothing whatsoever of my playstyle...you know nothing of my playstyle, only of my views on gameplay, which are all based 100% off of accuracy. Your having a personal vendetta against POV has absolutely nothing to do with discussions of this shard, gameplay, game design, and most importantly; accuracy. The fact that you try to assume you know me when you know nothing of me beyond my posts here and try to turn this into a personal attack simply because of a guild abbreviation speaks volumes about your maturity and your ability to conduct yourself in an intelligent way in order to make a valid argument.

Drop the petty attacks and stick to the discussion if you have something that merits a reply.

[dexter4321]

The fact that you are in PoV explains this entire thread. PoV are not real pvpers. They are a fake guild of blue anti-pks who run around playing candyland. That explains this wall you are talking about, I couldn't stand to be in PoV for more than a week. The guild you are in resembles your playstyle well and I am not surprised it has gotten old and boring for you.

Its funny how you actually attempted to come up with a relatively mature reply to my first few posts, but the moment you recognized that I had played in POV you turn this into a personal attack...POV reflects nothing whatsoever of my playstyle...you know nothing of my playstyle, only of my views on gameplay, which are all based 100% off of accuracy. Your having a personal vendetta against POV has absolutely nothing to do with discussions of this shard, gameplay, game design, and most importantly; accuracy. The fact that you try to assume you know me when you know nothing of me beyond my posts here and try to turn this into a personal attack simply because of a guild abbreviation speaks volumes about your maturity and your ability to conduct yourself in an intelligent way in order to make a valid argument.

Drop the petty attacks and stick to the discussion if you have something that merits a reply.

Haha no this was not personal at all. It was personal when I single handedly destroyed your entire guild, but that's in the past. You being in PoV explains it all perfectly. You are complaining about their not being enough activity out in the field because of afk macroing using razor, when in fact your in a anti-pk non-warring guild.

My take on the matter however has not changed at all. Just knowing who you are and the guild you roll with, and how many times I have seen you in the game or the field, makes me understand more where you are coming from is all.

[benny-]

Are you done?

[dexter4321]

Are you done?

The real question is if you are done. I am just responding to everything you say.