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Re: Prevent IRC Scamming : A Tip!
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:53 pm
by Cutpurse
And thanks everyone that supports this, but the best support is use of the system. Don't let you or a guildie get screwed.
Re: Prevent IRC Scamming : A Tip!
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:15 am
by son
Cutpurse wrote:Surprise surprise that the biggest objection comes from the biggest scammer. Yeah, people need to be careful. People need to study who they deal with... but the thing about IRC is that really nayone can pretend to be anyone else.
On the board, it's hard to make a similar-enough-to-scam screenname. See the point we're trying to make, felix? Don't play ignorant, you know you've been circumventing the set rules by using PMs. You're trying to work the system and people following this guideline would basically quash your methods.
Read my suggestion, felix -- not once did I say that staff should do anything to change the rules. I just offered a very logical solution to people getting scammed via PMs on IRC. Make a board post -- it almost makes TOO MUCH SENSE. If this weren't something that should be dictated then there wouldn't be the rules in place that already are.
I hope this really catches on -- so much that MAYBE there will be put in a Transaction Contract sub-forum. If you were a legitimate (read: not a douchebag) then you'd have no problem loggin ginto the thread to say "I agree".
Sounds like a fine idea, and I reverse my stance on this because I hope it would ease the cries Derrick has to hear about stealing. Only reason I can ever steal crap is because some people are lazy anyway. Look at GK's setup at cove if you want to understand security, I am glad my ole buddy lazarith has finally caught on too.
I have been more than straightforward with Derrick about anything I do. Shit I have even offered to tell him ahead of time before I do it.
I feel bad making Derrick or any of the staff got out of their way for any reason (free shard) and thus I try not to bug them for any reason. Lately I have cringed at some of your cries.
I have told Derrick that I will stop stealing from people, all he has to do is ask, because as I understand it I have followed the rules.
I do however feel that many of you are also stepping over the lines by crying about what I have done to admins, I have followed the rules and I doubt anyone can say otherwise. I am currently banned from the irc room because I got in a flame war about the definition of "agnostic" with tron, not because of stealing.
I find it quite funny how I am getting more heat over a few stolen pixels when contrasted to all the kills I racked up in 3months of pking.
Re: Prevent IRC Scamming : A Tip!
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:26 am
by son
Homie wrote:Trading should be conducted in #secondagetrade. Perpetrating scams may not be done in the main IRC channel or in #SecondAgeTrade. Save it for ingame or #SecondAgePVP. However don't assume that just because we have this rule people won't try to scam you in channel, but channel bans may be enforced after the fact.
If someone uses the main or the trading channel to get attention for a intented scam or is pming someone whos in the main or trade channel he / she is still abusing the "scam-free" channels for their dishonest plans and should be punished for that reason.
Example:
Im yelling "SELLING +20 VANQ HALLY - 20 K ONLY" in the main channel and we detail the deal out via pm. We meet at a location and i'll give you a might hally instead of a vanq (the propper precautions you should have taken left beside). -> scam that should be punished because i used the main channel to get the needed attention and it makes no diffrence.
I pm you in the main or trade channel with this offert and give you as mentioned above a might hally. -> its still a punishable scam because without the main or trade channel i would never have had the posibility to reach you. You can see.. to scam you i had to use the "scam-free" channels to even be able for a private chat with my victim.
Question:
Is it possible for the staff / IRC-mods to check who pm'ed whom from which channel? in other words: can you see when im opening a private chat from the pvp channel or from the trade channel?
With the given rules i dont see a large range for scams in irc. Maybe a scammer sees it and thinks it would be an extra smart move to not read between the lines and only focusing on the words "main channel" and "trade channel" like an advertisement bot.
This would lead the whole irc rule regarding the scam issue to nonsense and gives the scammer an unfair advantage due to this wooly rule.
I know a lot of players here dont want these restrictions and scamming was and still is a part of this game - ingame.
In this context i would like to know if there were any irc chats like ours during t2a hosted by osi in 1998/99?
*still confused*
regards
Your example is illegal because that specific deal is struck using the main room. The IRC PM is just a confirmation that someone accepts the terms.
This is why I think the sub forum is a silly idea (but as previously posted a good one), any deal made in forum or IRC main room have to be honored or otherwise fall into the "not allowed" realm.
Also IM/IRC/forums existed during era and they were key to make connections and gather information. There was little to no scam enforcing on these mediums. You bet your ass you had to be careful back then.
Possible straw man: Its unfortunate that some of you are putting precautionary responsibilities on admins when they should be your own. Scamming was huge in era and thus should be here too.
Re: Prevent IRC Scamming : A Tip!
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:09 am
by Hoots
son wrote:
Also IM/IRC/forums existed during era and they were key to make connections and gather information. There was little to no scam enforcing on these mediums. You bet your ass you had to be careful back then.
Possible straw man: Its unfortunate that some of you are putting precautionary responsibilities on admins when they should be your own. Scamming was huge in era and thus should be here too.
Ill give credit where it is due... Felix actually has a good point here.
Everyone crying for IRC enforement and scamming enforcement by the staff needs to just shut up and move on.
You have a forum that is enforced as no scamming
You have ingame mechanics to securly trade nearly every item in the game
You have brokers for houses and the few other exceptions from player vendors
You have a 300-500 player pop with people who have reputations.
Im not trying to be a d1ck but if you get scammed here it is your own fault. Its a hard truth.... Sorry
If you spend less time asking for staff intervention and more time on trade security it wouldnt be an issue.
That being said, im not defending the scumbag known as felix... Its you're own fault for dealing with him in the first place!
Re: Prevent IRC Scamming : A Tip!
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:12 am
by Mikel123
Is IRC scamming now "legal"?
I had thought it was equally protected, just as the trade forum.
Re: Prevent IRC Scamming : A Tip!
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:35 am
by Derrick
Mikel123 wrote:Is IRC scamming now "legal"?
I had thought it was equally protected, just as the trade forum.
The IRC rules are unchanged and are here:
http://forum.uosecondage.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=104
You may not intentionally fraudulently advertise in the public IRC channels or on the trading post of the forums.
Trading should be conducted in #secondagetrade. Perpetrating scams may not be done in the main IRC channel or in #SecondAgeTrade. Save it for ingame or #SecondAgePVP. However don't assume that just because we have this rule people won't try to scam you in channel, but channel bans may be enforced after the fact.
We cannot police the rest of the Internet, or monitor PM's on IRC networks, other websites forums, read your email, etc.
This policy as stated does not offer any protection, it's an IRC and forum rule.
Re: Prevent IRC Scamming : A Tip!
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:47 am
by Homie
Mikel123 wrote:Is IRC scamming now "legal"?
I had thought it was equally protected, just as the trade forum.
yes so did i...
The rule has some room for misinterpretation and should be removed entirely so especially new players know about that irc is not scam-protected and every deal could be a scam attempt on them.
The actual interpretation of the rule only gives an advantage to the scammer fraction and i dont think this should be encouraged.
There should be either a full scam protection or no protection at all to keep things clear.
regards