mini-heal/interupt patch kill 1v1 tank mage pvp??

[Clyde-]

I am sorry, but hemp is right...mana vamp will not work for you in a duel. Not only is it a huge waste of mana if it fails..but if anything it's not goin to deplete them from enough mana to mini heal anything you throw at them, sorry.

Lesser cure pot cures DP

Paralyze? in a duel? Lol. Any pvper who doesn't carry trapped pouches isn't much of a pvper. Not to mention even if you do para them, after your combo they will still be alive and can just mini heal right back up.

Harm spam? That alone verifies my assumption that you haven't tested the current system. Idc how many harm spam hally hits you get..i can literally mini heal up to full hp from half w/ 3-4 mini heals. Harm spam won't win a fight.

PvP now requires you to get some BIG spell dmg's off combined with not missing 2-3 hally shots consecutively if you want to win against even a "decent" pvper. But as it is, hits are 50/50, and the range in damage on 6/7th circle spells is so random its absurd.

Let me explain something, here's an example of the idiocy of how it currently is. Alatar and I are out pk'ing, we para a noob, load explos, drop explo's and FS's and BOTH land hally hits...the noob runs to guard zone at 0% still alive somehow. Okay so im like well thats cool.
Next scenario. Im playing around dueling with a friend, he says he wants to test some dmg, he casts explo/ebolt/hally hit, i die. Now how does a noob at the gy live through the insane dump 2 7x hally mages dropped on his ass...while ONE of those two 7x hally mages drops to explo/ebolt/hally with a gm hally?

Im sorry but imo this is the worst it has been to date pvp wise...the last two patch's we had in place weren't perfect (none are) but they were a hell of a lot better for pvp imo. Each time we've made a change its been on the basis that "oh this is era accurate" and then it changes again, and again, and again. I have no doubt the pvp mechanics will be changed again sometime in the future as well. Point is, it wasn't that bad in the past but every time a few people die because they think that there's no way they should lose to anyone, they bitch, and things are "looked into," and changed. Eventually people are going to get fucking sick of all these changes after they just became accustomed to how they previously were and will leave b/c it's not stable...at all.

There is a big difference between the skill levels of people's pvp ablilites but now that mini heal is so powerful even the crappy pvpers can run around "lol you can't kill me" bs because its too easy to heal out. People i used to dominate can now sit there and heal though MASSIVE dumps and hally hits, ge pots, lightning wands, etc., and they sit there in the same tile spamming mini heal and i watch my mana deplete to a first circle spell.

Am i the only one that thinks it's total bullshit that a first circle spell can heal a 6th circle spell at the cost of 1/4th the mana and at a much faster rate? Come on...

[tekai]

I still think that mini heal was beefed up in the demo becuase no one played the demo long enough to get greater heal. If they wanted the demo to "work" they had to beef mini heal, theres no way it healed for this much during 99 era pvp.

[Hemperor]

I still think that mini heal was beefed up in the demo becuase no one played the demo long enough to get greater heal. If they wanted the demo to "work" they had to beef mini heal, theres no way it healed for this much during 99 era pvp.

Casting spells was never really intended on the demo IMO, demo it basically a straight rip of Mayish 98 OSI

[Derrick]

We're in agreement I think that mini-heal may have been high in the demo (magery/10+(1-6)), and it was reduced. However the first statements of mini heal amounts on stratics which unfortunately come post era, claim up to 14 damage; and later statements claim the (magery/10)+(1-3) roller, which we currently use.

I'd be overjoyed to find more era specific info on this, but short of having that would require me to make up a formula.

[Mirage]

Maybe we can put a limitation/set times of the year on how many times we patch/change the mechanics of pvp. For example once every three months etc. As of late there has been so many changes that anymore I don't even bother to get used to the current system because as Clyde was saying we know it's going to change ever so fast.

I agree the pvp system here was much better before the new formula for mini heal and disrupts. What I think everyone is overlooking is this. Not EVERYONE on osi during T2A era had GM magery, therefore the formula we are currently using which includes your skill in magery may not jog your memory (or my memory either) because majority of people weren't gm mages.

Clyde has a point with a player "getting owned and "looking into things" and all the sudden changes being made. I know this is a lot to ask from Derrick and the staff but maybe it's time to put the 'player/researcher' on the backburner and let the players play and the developers develope. I realize a lot of the research is done by players, but when I go back and look through the "Era Accuracy/Suggestion" forum it's a large majority of people suggesting things that they want changed to cater to their personal playing experience.

[Tron]

Use mana vampire...
Use paralyze
Use DP...
Spam harm...

Evolve...

I really don't care anymore so ban me, but why do you always make such arrogant posts like you have even the SLIGHTEST clue?

Clearly you have no idea.

Agreed.

Archaic, with 650 posts in 1 months time, I've noticed often that your assessments or advice given on the topics discussed is almost always way off-skew or just plain wrong.

No offense, but you don't know nearly as much as you think you do, and giving bad advice is worse than giving no advice.

[Pro]

what happened to the whole 100% disrupts thing on debuffs ;[

[Corwin]

My Prima guide has Heal as Magery/10+(1-6).

It also has Greater Heal as 4*Magery/10

This was published in 1997 before the release of the game based on information supplied by Origin.

It would be odd for the T2A demo to continue to use those exact same numbers, unless they were still in use.

I also have the AOS version of the Prima guide which was (C) 2003, they happen to have Heal as Magery/10+(1 to 3), and Greater Heal as 4*Magery/10+(1-10)

Funny that they'd decrease lesser heal, but raise greater; but of course by the time AOS rolled around you could also have 120 magery, and then AOS added all that fast casting crap.

They also mention spell timing in the AOS guide:

"All 1st Circle Spells cost 4 mana and take .5 seconds to cast"
"All 4th Circle Spells cost 11 mana and take 1.25 seconds to cast"

[Faust]

I know this is a lot to ask from Derrick and the staff but maybe it's time to put the 'player/researcher' on the backburner and let the players play and the developers develope. I realize a lot of the research is done by players, but when I go back and look through the "Era Accuracy/Suggestion" forum it's a large majority of people suggesting things that they want changed to cater to their personal playing experience.

Sorry, this will never happen simply because Derrick would not sacrifice the credibility of his t2a replica shard policies to please one specific group of players. Read the front page of the web site and this same statement is clear as can be on there. This type of approach is what lead to the incorrect change of the heal spell in the first place. I was a major supporter of lowering the "in mani" heal spell effective rate because we had no data on the spell at that time.

The spell is sitting at the same value that it was before the patch that changed in May '09 and there was no where near the amount of complaints during that whole time for well over an entire year like there is now. This was even during a much slower pvp environment that made the spell IMMENSELY stronger than it is at this very moment.

We are no longer using the demo value of 11-16 and instead using the Stratics value of 11-14. There is documentation that the spell changed sometime after the demo for obvious reasons. The confirmed date of the 11-14 value goes from modern UO all the way back to '01. We believe that this value is correct for the era until proven otherwise. If you believe this isn't the case please come forth with some information to support the claim.

This shard aims to replicate the t2a era the best possible way under the current technical difficulties, not cater to specific interest groups that prefer personal opinions over the stated goals for this shard.

[Pro]

Well the thing is as accurate as the system is i think we can all agree it isn't 100% yet and I personally think doing it bit by bit may be the wrong approach.


How about this for a suggestion, We take a shard vote on whether to have a not-100% accurate system that every agrees is somewhat usable til we have the fully accurate one sorted.

This mix and match of stuff being added is really messing up the pvp and needs to be sorted.

[Faust]

That approach isn't valid at all in my opinion Pro. The majority of the era accuracy problems pop up in a very unexpecting way. For example, the spell interruption system we thought was a hundred percent accurate until discovering that the procedure was called twice in specific situations such as using a magery damage spell. You cannot just lay stuff to the side in hopes that it will someday be a complete system. There is no way to ever really know you have a complete system, because again most stuff pops up out of no where and smacking you right in the face. The approach Derrick is taking is the best way to do it. The way you are suggesting would only add more work for Derrick making the progress rate of this shard even more slower towards its main objective. I don't think one person would say that this shard is completely accurate. However, it is the closest any shard has accomplished and will eventually hit that point someday.

I don't see a "mix match" system in all honesty. I look at the shard in a right or wrong position. If something is accurate than that is great, but if something is wrong it needs fixed. Era accuracy isn't easy as you make it out to be. There is global accuracy and sub-divided categories that could be accurate. I can only assume that you were specifically talking about PVP. However, just because one thing effects pvp it doesn't mean it doesn't effect another group such as RPers or PVMers. Specific interest groups do not come before another here on this shard. Not all accurate fixes relate to only PVP.

[Choppa X]

As one of the best pvpers on the shard, I can personally say this 11-14 damage mini heal is absolutely horrid. It takes two mini heals to heal the damage from an ebolt, and you can pretty much mini heal through anything in just a few casts. I am also not fan of now having nothing that 100% interrupts. It just makes duels even more luck based than they already were, and a headache for anyone doing them.

[Faust]

Spell interruption is pretty much guarenteed at all times now Choppa...

The only thing that decreased with this patch was debuffs. Pretty much every damage spell for example increased 2-3 times more. Magic arrow can easily disrupt a spell now compared to the past... I can only assume that you were specifically talking about debuffs since that was the only thing that was guarenteed before this patch. Debuffs were never guarenteed and from a balance issue(what you typically only care or look at) it shouldn't be stronger than a spell that deals damage. That makes absolutely no sense at all in regard to balance issue. However, balance means nothing here as you well know. I am simply speaking hypothetically if that were the case obviously.

[Choppa X]

Spell interruption is pretty much guarenteed at all times now Choppa...

The only thing that decreased with this patch was debuffs. Pretty much every damage spell for example increased 2-3 times more. Magic arrow can easily disrupt a spell now compared to the past... I can only assume that you were specifically talking about debuffs since that was the only thing that was guarenteed before this patch.

Which is what I just said. Nothing is a 100% interrupt anymore. "Pretty much gauranteed" is not 100%.

[Faust]

A spell that hits for 1 damage is a 70% chance Choppa...

A spell that hits for 13 damage is guarenteed at all times...

Before the patch 1 damage was around 20%, 5 damage was around 50%, and even average damage ebolt that used to sit at 24 damage wasn't even guarenteed sitting in the 90ish percentile range.

Debuffs should not disrupt constantly. That is a game mechanic in a UO system that never existed in the real game. This only exists in your fake little RunUO world that you think is so great since that is the only thing you are familiar with in this game.