Swing on the run (dexing)

[nightshark]

Ronk it seems you are talking about insta hit but that has nothing to do with this thread. We already have insta hit. This thread is about the .25s you have to stop moving in order to "ready a swing". Once that swing is readied, you can swing while moving.

What Kaivan was talking about was that with the version of swing on the run that was GOING to be implemented on UOSA, you would have to be standing directly next to your opponent on the exact .25s tick that your swing was readied. If you were out of range on that particular tick, your swing timer would restart without ever having swung. Anyone who played this on test saw it was completely horrible. If that patch had gone through, there would be no PvP on this shard at all - tank mages would be unviable, dexers would never kill anyone either. It was definitely not era accurate.

The version of swing on the run that people in this thread are campaigning for, is to be able to swing while moving without ever having to stop for that .25 seconds to ready their hit.

[tanmits]

The version of swing on the run that people in this thread are campaigning for, is to be able to swing while moving without ever having to stop for that .25 seconds to ready their hit.

Correct, but Rose's suggestion (to have to stop for .25 seconds once you switch weapons to restart timer) would be ideal for balance, IMO.

And I'm confused a bit by Kaivan's post... how can we claim that SOTR isn't era accurate with that mini-patch yet holding hits is when all evidence points to players not being able to hold swings? How is that decision any less arbitrary and balance/fun-oriented than implementing a change to make dexers viable in PVP? I may be missing something, so please correct me if I'm reading it wrong.

Also, this thread deserves infinite bumps.

[Ragancy]

I feel like we should try to implement on the test server something along the lines of what Rose suggested. Provide a few weeks for feedback on the mechanic regarding how it works in actual pvp, then decide if it should be published.

My two cents.

[Kaivan]

I feel like we should try to implement on the test server something along the lines of what Rose suggested. Provide a few weeks for feedback on the mechanic regarding how it works in actual pvp, then decide if it should be published.

My two cents.

This is a circumstance that won't ever occur because it clearly violates the effort to produce era accurate mechanics. We have only two options at this point; either your swing can advance while moving or your swing cannot advance while moving, both of which do not allow for your swing to be held until you are in range.

[Roser]

This has been a great thread, and I think its something that promotes interest for era accuracy, and at the same time educates community members on the inner workings of the game.

If combat changes are being considered, then I would like to re-iterate a previous idea, as well as put fourth another idea.

First a question: How much of the current combat mechanics have been fabricated without any empirical evidence directly supporting them?

As far as I understand, there is a significant portion that is not era accurate. However I do realize the need for non accurate fixes to occur for the sake of making things work (its not like staff has perfect code to fall back on).

So that being said, I would like to put fourth two "Pillar's of possibility".


Pillar one, my original idea: Code a fix into the current mechanics in the form of "semi-lifting" the movement restriction. Have the movement restriction only apply to those who are switching between weapons. This will allow for players who do not often switch weapons (dexers) to swing while moving. The movement restriction will only happen at stage one of a new weapon cycle, ie when a tank mage switches to wrestling in between hally hits, or when a dexer switches to a different weapon.

Is this era accurate? No, but it does fix a problem with current combat mechanics (which are not entirely accurate to begin with).


Pillar two, a different approach: Roll back to the original combat fixes (demo only) and re-examine what we have without holding hits and with swing on the run. Yes I realize that combat was excruciating when this was originally implemented on test, but my point here is that perhaps a tweak could be done to make this more viable.

As we know, the demo does not allow you to hold your swing, instead you must be in range of your target on the exact tick (quarter second) that your swing is ready in order to hit. I propose that staff play with the window you are able to hit with, perhaps increasing it up to 4 ticks (one whole second).

What are the benefits of this? In my opinion, if it worked, this would make for a more T2A accurate combat system, as well as open up combat to dexers and accuracy enthusiasts.

But is it accurate? I would argue that yes, its more accurate then pillar one and yes it is more accurate then the current mechanics.


I believe it is worth testing to find out.

[Roser]

Kaivan has said that if any change is to occur, that it must come from reliable evidence. I am in full agreement.

However, if evidence cannot be found, I would ask staff to take my ideas into consideration. Perhaps they could become a plan B... or C... or even F

[Kaivan]

Kaivan has said that if any change is to occur, that it must come from reliable evidence. I am in full agreement.

However, if evidence cannot be found, I would ask staff to take my ideas into consideration. Perhaps they could become a plan B... or C... or even F

Unfortunately we can't do that. On subjects that no evidence exists for (which there are few or none of), then suggestions can be made. However, in any circumstance where we do have evidence, our choices are limited by that evidence. In this case, the evidence only gives us two options, making a plan B, C, or other plan entirely moot.

Again, if reliable evidence surfaces then our options change (not necessarily for the better mind you).

[Matty]

any way we can implement SOTR on test?

[iamreallysquall]

has this thread just turned into lets keep asking wasting time vs looking for something ...........

[Sandro]

No, they are under the impression that if they drag this out for 2 months the staff will cave and bless them with their wishes.

However, that is not the case here.

As we have previously seen, Kaivan is a difficult man to sway into making changes..

[Ronk]

No, they are under the impression that if they drag this out for 2 months the staff will cave and bless them with their wishes.

However, that is not the case here.

As we have previously seen, Kaivan is a difficult man to sway into making changes..

Actually the ultimate point is that it is not era accurate right now. In the T2A era, being a dexxer was viable. On UOSA, being a dexxer is not viable. Something is broken. The problem is, no one can agree on what it is that is broken and there isn't enough data/info out there to ever prove one way or another.

Kaiven says the goal is era accuracy but we clearly aren't there yet. Unless the claim is that we are era accurate and the game is just unplayable for dexxers due cable modems or some other modern tech.

As it stands though, the server is going to continue to lose (and not gain) players who want to play dexxers. Then ultimately you may have what some feel is an 'era accurate shard' but no one is going to play it.

[Sandro]

I can play a dexxer here just fine, shit I even solo pk'd with my fencer-tracker before I dropped tracking for magery..

If you actually know what you're doing and stock properly a dexxer is twice as good as a mage is.

I'll go with you just don't know what you're doing..

[Ronk]

I can play a dexxer here just fine, shit I even solo pk'd with my fencer-tracker before I dropped tracking for magery..

If you actually know what you're doing and stock properly a dexxer is twice as good as a mage is.

I'll go with you just don't know what you're doing..

Well, we could go through the process of breaking down how much of a noob or how low health your targets were...but if a dexxer was twice as good everyone would be dexxers. They aren't. And theres a reason so few to no dexxers ever join the 1v1 tourneys (though im sure a big part of that is that the rule sets totally gimp em)

[nightshark]

I can play a dexxer here just fine, shit I even solo pk'd with my fencer-tracker before I dropped tracking for magery..

If you actually know what you're doing and stock properly a dexxer is twice as good as a mage is.

I'll go with you just don't know what you're doing..

Well, we could go through the process of breaking down how much of a noob or how low health your targets were...but if a dexxer was twice as good everyone would be dexxers. They aren't. And theres a reason so few to no dexxers ever join the 1v1 tourneys (though im sure a big part of that is that the rule sets totally gimp em)

http://my.uosecondage.com/Events/Tourna ... only=False
http://my.uosecondage.com/Status/Player/16221

A dexer that has won 27 1v1 tournaments in a row and 88% of all tournaments entered... that's Sandro's character.

[Matty]

I can play a dexxer here just fine, shit I even solo pk'd with my fencer-tracker before I dropped tracking for magery..

If you actually know what you're doing and stock properly a dexxer is twice as good as a mage is.

I'll go with you just don't know what you're doing..

Well, we could go through the process of breaking down how much of a noob or how low health your targets were...but if a dexxer was twice as good everyone would be dexxers. They aren't. And theres a reason so few to no dexxers ever join the 1v1 tourneys (though im sure a big part of that is that the rule sets totally gimp em)

http://my.uosecondage.com/Events/Tourna ... only=False
http://my.uosecondage.com/Status/Player/16221

A dexer that has won 27 1v1 tournaments in a row and 88% of all tournaments entered... that's Sandro's character.

no SOTR benefits a dexer in tight spots. i'll whip the hell out of that char on the field