Combat Timer Trial and other proposed changes now on Test

[nightshark]

Yes hally spam sucks, yes "standing still to recharge hally" sucks too. But this shard still owns every other shard and besides these things are being changed soon.

having to stand still to refresh hally has been known to be inaccurate for a while now; i don't get why it hasn't been patched already. it's the single gayest thing about pvp on this shard

[MatronDeWinter]

Yes hally spam sucks, yes "standing still to recharge hally" sucks too. But this shard still owns every other shard and besides these things are being changed soon.

having to stand still to refresh hally has been known to be inaccurate for a while now; i don't get why it hasn't been patched already. it's the single gayest thing about pvp on this shard

Why would they bother patching in swing-timer-lapse-on-movement when there are a whole slew of other problems with the system?

I for one, would rather tank mages stay put to charge, to offset the magical ability to recharge a hally every 2 seconds, until the whole system can be patched. Tank mages in general are still getting what would be equated as a nerf whenever the system is finalized. I am sure that the little issue of remaining stationary to charge your swing is only a minor thing to pay considering the HUGE non-accurate benefit this class has currenty.

[Grom]

I for one, would rather tank mages stay put to charge, to offset the magical ability to recharge a hally every 2 seconds, until the whole system can be patched.

I've asked this in a few other threads, but still haven't had a clear response. When all the combat changes are finalized, will you be able to wrestle/hally timer bug/exploit whatever you want to call it to lower the hally timer to 2 sec, or is that currently inaccurate and going to change (hopefully change).

[Joueur Moyen]

At one point there was a bug that would prevent casting if trying to equip too soon. It was pretty nasty because no further casting could be performed without logging out and back in. It was like the client thought I had a weapon equipped, but I didn't.

This indicates that a change was made to allowing equipping a weapon during casting post-Demo (or before?). It's allowed in demo without issue. This bug has been mentioned before. Do you recall any general time for this, and/or what the behavior was after the fix?

...

After reading through the patch notes, I think it was the buggy arm/disarm macro in the client.

Client Patch 1.26.0b Sep 2 1999 7:02AM CST

The arm/disarm macro for the right arm will now work properly. You will be able to rearm after using an item (such as a potion or door).

What probably happened is that I disarmed, drank a pot, cast gheal and went to reequip, but couldn't.

It was not the "already casting a spell" bug. The whole sequence of events started with disarming my weapon. I think the message was something about already having a weapon equipped, but I can't remember for sure if it was that, or "hands must be free to cast a spell" when trying to cast after being bugged. But that patch note suggests to me that it was drinking a potion that was a part of the bug and not trying to rearm while casting.

Concerning the swing timer elapsing while running, and hitting on the run, well, I don't remember being able to hit on the run during t2a. What I remember is running my char on top of someone else's and following behind them and swinging when my char was paused. Because I was faster than most people for a while that tactic worked fine, and because my char's stamina was less than full, I wouldn't ride over them, but instead stay right on their heels and swing with each momentary pause if the weapon was ready. It felt like the timer was advancing, but the swing would not happen on the run.

Archery was run, stop, shoot, run, stop, shoot. The shot happened almost right after stopping. Duelists didn't use archery for all the obvious reasons, but it was still okay in the field, especially for running someone down who was low on health. One of my pre-t2a archers never got switched over and he got kill shots in while mages in the group were stopping to cast. It was faster for an archer to get off a shot while giving chase than it was to stop and cast corp por, assuming the bow was ready to fire. (I forgot to ask if all your screenshots were t2a, but if they were, someone's archer wasn't nerfed into "uselessness.")

The following often quoted patch note for UO:R does not necessarily mean to me that the swing timer didn't advance at all while on the move, because of the conclusion it draws due to the change. The patch note could mean that previously the combat timer wouldn't advance into a ready to swing state, and thus hitting on the move was not possible until stopping. But that doesn't mean the timer didn't advance up to the ready state and pause before entering into it. Of course that's just an interpretation of the patch note, but it states "melee swing times", which could mean when the swing is ready, and not the time required to get it to that point.

Apr 28 2000:

Players using melee weapons in combat will now hold their swing until their target is in range. Additionally, the timer that determines melee weapon swing times (combat timer) will now advance as the player is moving. Thus, melee weapon users will no longer be required to stop moving before swinging.

[MatronDeWinter]

I for one, would rather tank mages stay put to charge, to offset the magical ability to recharge a hally every 2 seconds, until the whole system can be patched.

I've asked this in a few other threads, but still haven't had a clear response. When all the combat changes are finalized, will you be able to wrestle/hally timer bug/exploit whatever you want to call it to lower the hally timer to 2 sec, or is that currently inaccurate and going to change (hopefully change).

You WILL be able to exploit a bug increasing the frequency of hally usage, but it is nowhere near 2 seconds, if you can do it at all.

[Eaglestaff]

You know, I REALLY don't remember people ever using the mini-heal unless the damage they wanted to heal was less than (or equal to) the max healable by the spell. Nobody spammed it during pvp like they do here, not even close.

This is going to be a real problem when the swing timer stuff is finally figured out and tank-mages cannot use the hally as frequent to offsent the super-power-healing ability of others.

I used to spam min-heal in '99 and I had it done to me as well. It was the fastest way to heal. The main reason it should be used in PVP is because it can save your life when you dont have time for the more mana efficient GHeal.

[Derrick]

I for one, would rather tank mages stay put to charge, to offset the magical ability to recharge a hally every 2 seconds, until the whole system can be patched.

Aye, we don't desire to make any intermediate changes to the combat timer, no matter how tempting it may be. People understand the current swing system, and our efforts will be focused on corrected it as a whole.

When all the combat changes are finalized, will you be able to wrestle/hally timer bug/exploit whatever you want to call it to lower the hally timer to 2 sec, or is that currently inaccurate and going to change (hopefully change).

The process for developing these changes has been via modification to known OSI code from pre-T2A in such a manner that changes that are consistent with the OSI published patch notes, and elicit the expected and remembered system from the T2A era. We know that the system during T2A was somewhat exploitable, so when we do solve the puzzle we expect the system here to be somewhat exploitable as well.

[HI IM MIKE]

The new changes are up on Test Center & they are AMAZING. This feels like T2A PvP to me. I'll be the first to admit that I was one of the biggest opponents to this patch, but I take back everything I said about it. People - log on and try it out it actually doesn't suck.

[Eaglestaff]

The damage delay on bows seems more than it should be. If it is supposed to be a one second delay it seems longer than that.

[nightshark]

The new changes are up on Test Center & they are AMAZING. This feels like T2A PvP to me. I'll be the first to admit that I was one of the biggest opponents to this patch, but I take back everything I said about it. People - log on and try it out it actually doesn't suck.

Can't wait to try it out!

*counts down work hours*

[HI IM MIKE]

The damage delay on bows seems more than it should be. If it is supposed to be a one second delay it seems longer than that.

are you talking about weapon damage? If so, it's insta-hit - meaning the damage hits at the very beginning of the hally swing animation. As far as I could tell there were no issues as far as this was concerned. You may be cycling your hally incorrectly.

[Eaglestaff]

The damage delay on bows seems more than it should be. If it is supposed to be a one second delay it seems longer than that.

are you talking about weapon damage? If so, it's insta-hit - meaning the damage hits at the very beginning of the hally swing animation. As far as I could tell there were no issues as far as this was concerned. You may be cycling your hally incorrectly.

I was talkign about bows. Bows on test seem totally crazy to me.

1.) You can rapid fire just by moving one tile or changing direction between shots totally negating the swing timer; however, these rapid fire shots always miss, if you wait for the damage to apply tho it will not rapid fire and the timer resets
2.) There is a delay when initiating combat with bows; you cannot insta fire even if you have been still and the shot is ready. You wait at least one or two seconds
3.) The equip delay applies whenever you arm a bow, even if its the first shot of combat and even if the shot is ready
4.) The delay before damage applied feels a little late

[Faust]

1.) You can rapid fire just by moving one tile or changing direction between shots.

Welcome to Pre:UOR archery.

2.) There is a delay when initiating combat with bows; you have to wait the full timer out before you fire your first shot; then, after the first shot you will fire again right away

Please clarify this further please...

3.) The delay before damage applied feels a little late

Delay seemed fine to me. One second plant until the shooting animation and one second delay until damage is dealt. Will let Derrick confirm this just to be certain though. However, this part feels fine to me.

[Eaglestaff]

1.) You can rapid fire just by moving one tile or changing direction between shots.

Welcome to Pre:UOR archery.

The damage doesnt apply tho so I guess it makes sense. If you stay still the damage goes through and the the timer resets. This means an archer has to stay still for 2 seconds at a time if hes moving. So basically he has to stop for one second to fire, then wait another second for the damage. He cant move or cast spells after firing or the shot will miss.

Are you saying its supposed to be that way? He cant do anything after firing or it misses? That seems weird, one would think he should be able to move and cast after hes already fired.


As far as the delay when you open combat. Even if you are ready to fire and you have been still you will still wait the entire swing delay before you fire your first shot, then, fire the second shot right after that. For example. I have my bow equipped, am in firing range of target, and have not engaged combat yet. I go into war mode and double click the target. The bow should insta fire when i double click my target but it waits about a second delay to fire the first shot. You can never insta fire, even if you have been still it seems like you still suffer a one second delay before firing the first shot.

[Derrick]

Yes the bad shot and ammo consumption if you don't "plant" until the hit is expected, however the bow will still be ready to fire again after you stop. This is the same pre-t2a behavior seen in demo. Archery was pretty easy to set up because it's not believed there were any changes at all between demo an our timeframe. The was archery works on demo is exactly as it works currently on test.

The delay is described to be precisely one second elsewhere, but the OSI code verbatim causes a 1.25 second delay :/

The archery timer is effected by both movement and equiping, and like for melee combat equiping at the wrong time in the swing cycle has introduce a long wait.