Regarding Population of this game.

[Duke Jones]

Ninety plus percent of the Pre:UOR player base scene now days were the prey and bad players during this era. Majority of them were not the top PK/PVPer's in the game then. This creates a mental complex where these people can now play this role. The mentality has changed since the UOR publish where mainly the "HALO" generation played the game. No respect for anything in pvp and pk'ing. The main goal of these people are to grief as much victims as possible trying to torture people worse than the way they were treated. That is the clear reality and truth of the UOR mentality as I like to call it.

I'd like to see some patch notes to back that up

But yeah, I agree you can never truly go back. Every little stat and combo is studied to a point where just about everyone has the 'same template' and does the same thing. Case in point, the hally mages when watching a 1v1 duel.

Yeah I guess that's the reason why there are so many "class-based" MMOs out there as opposed to "skill-based" MMOs. So many people use the most powerful templates anyway, might as well just make them into classes and then do your best to balance them against each other.

[Ronk]

Yeah I guess that's the reason why there are so many "class-based" MMOs out there as opposed to "skill-based" MMOs. So many people use the most powerful templates anyway, might as well just make them into classes and then do your best to balance them against each other.

Actually, my guess is because its easier to program, develop, describe, and implement.

Right now, MMO's are just cookie cutters. UO was a ground breaker but starting with EQ they developed the game with the purpose of keeping people from quitting. None of the publishers care if their game is fun, exciting, or if it grants freedoms...all that matters is locking players in and making sure they don't want to stop paying. Hence why all of the MMORPG's these days are garbage.

[Hoots]

Hello. I'm a newcomer here. This is my first post. Please accept my appologies if this post is a result of ignorance of this specific server.

I think the conflict here is that we have an era-accurate game system, but we don't have an era-accurate population.

It would be nice if we could travel back in time and go back when t2a was new and people were trying to do new things and not power-game.

I feel that there is a disproportionate amount of power-gamers and griefers to casual and good-natured gamers out there. I have no problem with pvp, but there is a major difference between murdering for gold and really nice loot you want to take from a player, and murdering characters who obviously have nothing of value just to degrade their gameplay experience. What are new characters supposed to do when there are no safe hunting areas? I already know for a fact that PK griefers actively run through the common new-players hunting areas. Should they just be happy with the gained .6 points of certain skills per game session when they ultimately have to leave the safety of the town guards? I know that every time you leave the guarded zone, you should treat all unbanked items as a gamble wager. But what do you do when it simply is not fun anymore and when risk does not equal reward?

Handling an MMO population is a extraordinary exercise in sociology and management and i feel all who are in charge of secondage have my respect. They are in essence managing a population around a set game, rather than managing a game around a set population. This is something that is the reverse of the MMO "norm."

How do you deal with an overpopulation of griefers?
How do you deal with an overpopulation of Power-gamers?
How do prevent the degredation of the community into elitist players?
How do you attract new players without "dumbing down" the system?
How do you promote socialization?

The sad thing about this comment is that it may fall upon many deaf ears (ex. "of course there's alot of power-gamers! If you aren't streamlining everything to a macro or following a set proccess of 'how to make the most gold and loot fastest' you're a failure and there's no reason to even play. If you're not turning it into a job, you're not having fun!")

Welcome, thanks for taking the time to post such a well thought out point.

There are hundreds of examples of this on this shard... Ratio of available regs to players, ratio of inggot availability... Ratio of high end monster availability, high end tames, tames for gaining skill, availability of any resource (scrolls, arrows, boards, cloth, leather, etc. etc.), housing space, gold for farming, and on and on and on..

Think of how hard it was to get mass regs in t2a (errrr, without duping them that is...)!

I think it is a very interesting topic to discuss but not one you can really try to solve. Reducing gold (on monsters) and npc resources could be a step in the right direction but where do you draw the line? How many players do you need to increase (or decrease) these numbers?

The player ratio is anther tough one. Faust is 100% right about this being a t2a revenge server for many people... All those people who got houses looted, grief pk'd, valuables stolen, noto pk'd, blue pk'd and were helpless to stop it on OSI are now here becoming an elite at the exact same things previously done to them.

My answer to that is the same i use for any ea sports titles on consoles... (Great sports games but always have bugs/glitches/cheese that online players will use taking all enjoyment away from the game) Find a solid group of friends or guildies to play with and create your own gaming experiences. Dictate your play as opposed to letting the griefers dictate it for you... No you cant avoid these guys 100% of the time but then again that wouldnt be accurate either.

Hope you like it here. It can be tough starting out but alot of the things i mentioned above (gold farming availabilty/resource avaialability) can really benefit new players...

Yes, red will hit up BGY and harpies and maybe wrong lvl1 but there are tons more spots that you will never see another player!

[Xukluk Tuguznal]

I frown upon the killing of newbs let me say that and get it out the way.


But, I've seen the argument time and time again that the ratio of pk to blues isn't accurate... How can a playstyle ever be accurate? Part of the game is what people choose to do and in that aspect alone it is and will always be accurate as a constant.

Allowing people multiple accounts etc. does affect this. People also think of t2a and go "house looting, dry looting, and making newbies quit!" which certainly wasn't the case at all... Gurantee there are 5x as many blues to reds as there is here, people just weren't major dicks back then...People think T2A and think it's their right of way to be an asshole.

Yea mainly cause it wasn't a kid game back then.
But multiple accounts existed
For some reason the immature think Anonymity equates to them being able to do what they want

btw, I fail to see how multiple accounts causes that behavior

[archaicsubrosa77]

I have not one single red character but you all have to admit the element of it helps the game produce an element of excitement and fear. Every new character gets hazed in and once you realize dying isnt that bad, that you'll have twice as much tomorrow as you do today...that monster AI tends to be dumbed down to the point of expectancy...you'll look forward to those red names popping out to shake monatony.
Stop bashing them and appreciate what they do for this shard. Granted some could be a little more honorable and respectable in their mannerisms, but I found many theives of Brit to be more loathing. Not all mind you, some roleplay well...others are just sewage.

[tenduil]

Did you all vote today?

[Duke Jones]

I have not one single red character but you all have to admit the element of it helps the game produce an element of excitement and fear. Every new character gets hazed in and once you realize dying isnt that bad, that you'll have twice as much tomorrow as you do today...that monster AI tends to be dumbed down to the point of expectancy...you'll look forward to those red names popping out to shake monatony.
Stop bashing them and appreciate what they do for this shard. Granted some could be a little more honorable and respectable in their mannerisms, but I found many theives of Brit to be more loathing. Not all mind you, some roleplay well...others are just sewage.

Well. I welcome PVP for the excitement/economic stimulation but I think it's a stretch to consider player murderers or the griefer as a honorable and glamorized proffession or a service to the newbie community.

"Gee, thank you mister killer, thank you for killing me where I stand with the skillful use of your macro attack. I know my lowbie items and my blacksmith vendor cheapo armor and weapon I could barely afford at this point was Sooooo tempting to you. It was really my fault. I was actually asking for it, killing deer and and the occasional mongbat. I just hope that you have the patience to forgive me when next we cross paths as I go back to my body in false hope of finding ANYTHING left...

*death scream*

Whoops, I guess not... Well played, Mr red... well played..."

[Apok]

bilbo,

My take on it is;

a select group of players that play here are losers.

Like the ones that say ' i own you' and "i own you in IRl' stuff like that.

Or when they die " you where so lucky i ......" ect.

So no matter what you do you will always have a select group of social inept people with huge video game egos, that will grief and grief as much as they can because in the real world their a nobody.

[archaicsubrosa77]

Okay granted Pks should be seen and not heard most of the time (unseen death comes quicker). But let's be honest...yes you feel really bad when you get PK'd but when you kill a red it feels really really good aye?
Knowing this reds shouldnt degrade their image by kills of oppurtunity unless its an unbalanced fight if they are honorable. Of course if you are red you might as well admit you are at war with anything blue as blues are indiscriminate in their killing as well. When's the last time anyone said...

"Hello Mr Dread Lord, how many hast thou slain today? That's awfully nice colored boots thou art wearing.Oh, and they have a crafter's mark, how didst thou acquire those? I havent seen one vendor selling GM thigh boots as of late.They sure must be a prize.
I am sorry if I am bothering thee but dost thou knowest where I may purchase a runebook of all pk hotspots so I mayest know where not to go?"

No its usually fight or flight and ghosts ( in particular guildless ghosts ) have a harder time conveying the message that a red is in the vicinity. Why let one run if he has friends not too far behind?

We all have been killed unless you have never left town/home and played a very careful crafter or for the most part stayed away from hunting too much or for too long.

If you lose everything that's just part of your characters story...so be it. With bandages newbie swords and death shrouds a few recently revived can be back on their way again soon enough if they worked together. For my first few months of playing without knowing the slightest about razor, I scoured the country side to gain gold and gain skill. Having never played UO anywhere but this shard I knew little about it but a few things my friends shared with me. It was an alien place, and more often then not I was alone...and very much a target.

I died over and over at least twelve times in Vesper graveyard. Everytime time I took two steps back for my one and I found myself in a hole. Until I just went back to the graveyard with only my shroud my bandages and my newbie sword. It wasnt armor that saved me but my bravery. When that PK faced me again, this time not decked out head to toe in armor and sheild he actually spoke. "Sup" he said...

There was no Flamestrike killing me instantly,Bladespirits from which to run,or the snort of the horse behind me as I hear the bolt of energy being unleashed. The point is...have fun, enjoy your role you play. The experience is more real then any gold you got in your pack.

And if you got to cry about it...save face and do it in the privacy of your favourite spot in town, maybe take up theivery with all the others that can't cut it out there in the wild world alone.

Newbies die but only babies cry...chin up and press on or fend against the other stragglers in the sewage of Brit.

[tenduil]

Not to sound like a broken record (and its a new day):

Did all of you vote today?

[Hicha]

There are plenty of "safe" locations for new players to build their skills, avoiding the obvious hotspots is key to success.

There are plenty of great locations to build pvm skills that a screen or two away from a guard zone. The graveyard in Jhelom is right on the guard line border. People need to just learn to avoid the obvious pk spots (like brit/vesper gy).

And buy a damn horse. Someone in brit is always selling them for 500g, or just roll a 50/50 tamer and go get one from the stables. Really not that hard to avoid getting pked.

[Caranthir]

Well just to chime in, the reason it seems that there is a larger amount of griefers is simply due to the fact that since 1998 not only has the total amount of players changed but also the knowledge level.

In terms of player base, back in the day there were thousands of players so the number of PKs seemed insignificant compared to here and now. Also, people have drastically changed their approach to online gaming. In 1998, games like UO were still a novelty experience and the focus of the majority of people was not optimization of success but rather exploratory gameplay.

I think those are the two main reasons why, despite every attempt to perfectly replicate an era, it is an unattainable goal. What made the era was not the ruleset but the players; online gaming has changed a lot in the past ten years.

What kid in 1998 could afford real internet? The playerbase consisted primarily of adults who could afford forking over 400 bucks a month to their telephone company. Today, every 12 year-old kid can hook up his $499 PC to his parents' $9.99 flatrate DSL line and play.

So I don't really think that this shard necessarily has an overpopulation of griefers compared to back in the day, but rather that the way online games are being played and by whom has drastically changed over the last decade.

Just my 0.02

Cara

[Eaglestaff]

I have for a long time been considering what would happen when this fabled "era acccuracy" is achieved 100 percent. What would happen when the shard actually realizes its goals and where they would go from there. If that ever happens it might be possible that the admin would be more suggestible to tailoring the game world to the player base as they would have then achieved their stated goals. The game world is too big for the player-base and this affects the experience in many, many ways. As much of a massive undertaking it is to completely replicate the mechanics of the era i think it would be an even more huge undertaking to develop a game world which size matches the player-base. Keep in mind that sticking to the "Era accuracy" creed is the solid rock upon which this shard rests its back against and is a great insurer of longevity as far as maintaining players because they know what they are getting. Its easy to replicate something that already existed as best you can because you don't have to come up with anything new and risky and you can justify all your policies and decisions on one principle. Everyone knows the plan and no one is going to com,plain and quit when they think the ship is starting to deviate off course because it never will.

None the less, Ive personally felt that if this were done and a scaled down Sosaria were created to match her population, along with t2a era accurate mechanics, you would have the closest thing to the '99 experience from a subjective viewpoint. Once again this would be a massive undertaking and having finally perfected the era mechanics it would be unlikely that they would do anything to upset what they've created. None the less is till think that the size of the game world is a huge factor in the experience. Its very very risky, and from what Ive seen of the admin here they are very conservative and it has served the shard well. My ideal is t2a mechanics with a custom tailored game world.

The final thought is that if your going to make suggestions like this it would be something that is not only highly unlikely but almost impossible until they have achieved era accuracy. Until they have 100 percent accuracy thats all they are going to care about. Once they have this then you might suggest something more extravagant such as changing the game world. They have their gem and its called era accuracy. Once they have it nice and shiny and polished and they can put it up on the mantle and admire it then what you do is you wait for it to get a little dusty, wait for them to stop pampering it and rubbing it with a diaper and only then you might think of suggesting that they try something new or try to change something or to scale down Brittania or upset the balance. Imagine how the population could grow by that time. If the shard maintains and the admin perseveres, they might change, they might be more open once success has given them confidence. Era accuracy is the golden goose and its too soon to ask them to compromise.