Stealing in plain sight?

[Skirmish]

So today I was at the bank and somebody was standing next to me and stole something from my pack. The only way I knew they stole something is because they told me.

They didn't hide
I didn't see a snoop
They didn't turn gray

So then I was like wait, do that again. With me completely attentive and watching they stole some things out of my bag and put them on the ground.

How is this possible without hiding/stealthing or even going gray?

[Hicha]

Taken from: http://wiki.uosecondage.com/index.php?title=Stealing

Stealing and Criminal Flags

A member of the NPC thieves' guild cannot report murders. If you steal from an innocent player, then there are a few different possible outcomes.

1. Complete Success: One possibility is that you successfully steal an item and go completely unnoticed (in the sense that the game will not officially count any player or NPC as having noticed you even if a player realizes you stole from him or her). If this is the case, you will remain blue. You will, however, be freely attackable by anyone, even in guarded zones. This is known as being "permagray." Once you are permagray, you remain so until you die.

2. Partial Success: Another possibility is that you successfully steal an item but are noticed by a player or NPC. In this case, you will get a criminal flag and turn gray. If you are in town, the guards may be called on you. If the player you stole from attacks you, you will get a murder count for killing this player, even in self-defense. When your criminal flag wears off, you will be permagray.

3. Failure: You do not succeed in your attempt to steal. You may also go gray, as in a partial failure.

IMPORTANT: Do not fight back against a player that highlights blue to you. If you kill such a player, you will get a murder count and be removed from the Thieves' Guild for a week. Only fight those that appear gray to you. If you find yourself attacked by a person that highlights blue, run away. Come back after two minutes and, if the player attacks you again, you will now be able to defend yourself with lethal force. Do note that you will not auto-defend against an attacking player that highlights blue, so you need only use a little care to avoid getting murder counts.

[Skirmish]

1. Complete Success: One possibility is that you successfully steal an item and go completely unnoticed (in the sense that the game will not officially count any player or NPC as having noticed you even if a player realizes you stole from him or her). If this is the case, you will remain blue. You will, however, be freely attackable by anyone, even in guarded zones. This is known as being "permagray." Once you are permagray, you remain so until you die.

Yes, I read this entry many times and that does not clear things up.

I am guessing then:
"Permagray" does not imply the person's name is gray and I could have killed this blue player on the spot without circumstances (like guards).

[Proselyte]

Yes, you can lose items to a skilled thief

Hiding and Stealth just make it easier for them to get close to a mark without the mark running away. Don't let people stand next to you!

You will probably not notice a GM snooper and as you can see by hilcha's post you can be stolen from and if successful they will remain blue. One thing some people don't realize is that permagrey does not mean that you're flagged grey.

[Skirmish]

One thing some people don't realize is that permagrey does not mean that you're flagged grey.

What happens if I were to attack a permagrey within the city limits? Can guards be called on me? Would I turn grey? Would I turn red if I killed them? and so forth.

[Hicha]

Yes, I read this entry many times and that does not clear things up.

I am guessing then:
"Permagray" does not imply the person's name is gray and I could have killed this blue player on the spot without circumstances (like guards).

Permagray means the thief is flagged as a criminal, but you still see him as blue. If you know for sure someone is permagray, you can attack and kill them without threat from other players or the guards and they're bar will change gray.

If they aren't, their bar stays blue, and they yell guards... well you know the rest.

[Skirmish]

If you know for sure someone is permagray, you can attack and kill them without threat from other players or the guards and they're bar will change gray.

Bah! Missed opportunity!

[Proselyte]

Thieves cannot give murder counts even if they are not permagrey so no worries about yourself going red.

Also remember that the thief is only permagrey until they die so if you see them get guard-whacked or die any other way then make sure you know they have stolen again!

[Chumpbucket]

Dam thieves anyways tell me the town and I'll come and speak to the townsfolk. Atleast give some advice on how to better protect your valuables.

[EVeee]

Also Skirmish, if you have the option in UO set to receive a warning before performing a criminal action, you'll be able to test whether or not someone is permagrey safely. If you double-click them to attack and they ARE perma, you attack. If they aren't, you get the warning.

[MatronDeWinter]

Also Skirmish, if you have the option in UO set to receive a warning before performing a criminal action, you'll be able to test whether or not someone is permagrey safely. If you double-click them to attack and they ARE perma, you attack. If they aren't, you get the warning.

If this is true then this is not accurate, I havent tried it yet though.

I was the one stealing in plain sight. It was small 1 stone items, almost 90% success rate. You could have attacked and killed me.

[Skirmish]

I was the one stealing in plain sight.