Revisit Trophys vs. Economy

[Tronica]

No one is saying to stop events. They are saying, including myself, that there should be no rewards given for them. People on this server, including yourself say that there is no group field fighting, or fighting on the actual server. Well lets see why ... instead of that new player or any player farming gold in a dungeon for gold, they are playing in a free-use event and selling the trophy that they get from 0 risk.

Event
Risk = 0, Reward = 6k?

Killing a monster
Risk = death to monster, pk, guild war o/c
Reward = gold, magic item, treasure map, gems

You should not be rewarded for a 0 risk, or sure thing.

Rares collecting takes countless hours to get lucky at one spawning. Its not like they are just given to someone every time they go look for one at a rares spawn. There is no market for rares on this server either.

I see a huge market for rares. I see people saying in irc "buying rares" pretty consistently.

And I don't see how 6k is near on par with the value of most rares. It's not even a guaranteed 6k for a newb who manages to join an event. They have to win too, and if they lose, they have to wait another 10 hours for another one. Do you see many newbs in events anyways? I always see the same faces really, or people on their alts.
Noone is required to buy the trophies from anyone either, the market is there because rich players make it so.
Rare collecting takes countless hours, just like it would take countless hours for a newb to sit and wait for events also.

I've yet to see trohpies affect the economy negatively. What is that newb gonna do with his 6k? He's gonna help himself setup, and then maybe pvp later. I see no harm there, as a matter of fact. Pls make that money and get yourself on the field afterwards, spend more time fighing people than killing dragons? Yes, I want this for you. Or even be in an event instead of killing some dragon. At least it feels like youre playing an mmo that way, not a shitty "might as well be single player" dungeon crawl.

But I'll still say the same thing I've been saying, trophies should not be tradeable. You should earn you own shit, and the system is fine now, especially if people have to earn their own stuff. The rewards will mean much more.

[Jaster]

I dunno how the there is a comparison for rares and trophy points since they are on 2 different ends of the spectrum. Rares require countless hours of trying to find the spawn spots, spawn timers, and competing with a bunch of people that know where and when they spawn. Those people are out in the world playing the game though. Checking dungeons, checking towns, mingling with the community with regular game play. Getting trophies as a newbie is a crutch .... oh, instead of going out and farming for my gold, im just gonna log on for the events once every 10 hours until i've saved enough trophys to sell and actually get enough gold for magery or whatever skill you are working ... its the easy way out that involves the least amount of actual gameplay, and you can get at least 2 wins a week in a ctf as a total newbie 50/50 skills and make 12k.

I am all for people getting their skills up and getting out there, but look at the damn turn over rate on new players that are gonna be active in pvp ... its piss poor unless the person is devoted to play and will farm anyway. I'd rather have it harder and take longer for the new player and have them actually play the game instead of having them log on for an hour a day until they have enough trophy points to sell and get free gold to work skills.

Events can stay ... they are fun and players can get use to the mechanics playing in them without a risk, but there should be nothing that gives you a free monetary reward with 0 risk ...

[Kylock]

Make more/run more Non-PVP based events...

Bagball, Orc Invasions...

I've seen some stuff on other servers like bomberman games, mazes, just events that require common sense / basic uo knowledge

might be fun

[Tronica]

I dunno how the there is a comparison for rares and trophy points since they are on 2 different ends of the spectrum. Rares require countless hours of trying to find the spawn spots, spawn timers, and competing with a bunch of people that know where and when they spawn. Those people are out in the world playing the game though. Checking dungeons, checking towns, mingling with the community with regular game play. Getting trophies as a newbie is a crutch .... oh, instead of going out and farming for my gold, im just gonna log on for the events once every 10 hours until i've saved enough trophys to sell and actually get enough gold for magery or whatever skill you are working ... its the easy way out that involves the least amount of actual gameplay, and you can get at least 2 wins a week in a ctf as a total newbie 50/50 skills and make 12k.

I am all for people getting their skills up and getting out there, but look at the damn turn over rate on new players that are gonna be active in pvp ... its piss poor unless the person is devoted to play and will farm anyway. I'd rather have it harder and take longer for the new player and have them actually play the game instead of having them log on for an hour a day until they have enough trophy points to sell and get free gold to work skills.

Events can stay ... they are fun and players can get use to the mechanics playing in them without a risk, but there should be nothing that gives you a free monetary reward with 0 risk ...

Do you think newbs really do that tho?

Do you think that someone who wants to work his char will just log into events only, 2 a week, win 12k and thats all he does?

Even a newb can make 6k in an hour of work.

If people still think it's an issue tho, which I cannot say I've actually seen it have a negative affect personally. I'm assuming the people saying they are have proof, and not its not just speculation. Then we should make them non tradable.

[BlackFoot]

i think the zero risk high reward point loops made is extremely valid
edit : aside from unaccuracy events completely, the feel of zero rish high reward isnt a t2a ideal

[Jaster]

Well, I know for a fact it happens, which is the reason I'm saying it. I've seen it happen for a long time, and that is one of the reasons the amount of events has been getting lower and lower ...

Making them non-tradable is pointless only because all of the items on the list can and are being implemented into the regular game play. Why have non-tradable trophies that add more items to the server if they serve no purpose, and only get you items that you should/could be getting with regular game play if you want it?

[Tronica]

Well, I know for a fact it happens, which is the reason I'm saying it. I've seen it happen for a long time, and that is one of the reasons the amount of events has been getting lower and lower ...

Making them non-tradable is pointless only because all of the items on the list can and are being implemented into the regular game play. Why have non-tradable trophies that add more items to the server if they serve no purpose, and only get you items that you should/could be getting with regular game play if you want it?

I disagree.

Not all of those items are being implemented. One of a kind rares? Colored masks? Sandles?

It seems like the people that have these kind of items have no problems with this sytem being taken out. Will you donate your colored masks and items earned via the trophy system to the garbage barrel if they take out this system?

Blackfoot and your black deer mask, colored sandles, and loops, the same thing, since you have both of those items already.

The trophies are awesome, the events are awesome, and the system itself is awesome. I'll stand by that, and I hope others that feel the same make their voice heard too.

I still think there is NO RISK involved in getting rares, you are competing with about 15 others who do the same thing, and you don't even have to go into a dungeon. All rare spawns should be removed, all rares of any kind should be phased out because these only add more items to the server and serve no purpose except driving an economy.... hmmm sounds familiar.

[son]

19:09 < felix> trophies dont affect economy
19:10 < chumbucket> He even admits it in private chat!
19:10 < hiicha> heh, if anything, it'd help start new people
19:10 < felix> the items u get from trophies are trivial status symbols
19:10 < hiicha> i wanted to ask for a loan so bad to get started
19:10 < hiicha> makes things easier
19:10 < Tron> <felix> the items u get from trophies are trivial status symbols
19:10 < Tron> say that
19:10 < Tron> cause they are
19:10 < hiicha> when you have cash to start
19:10 < Tron> it just means u earned them in events
19:10 < Tron> they dont affect gameplay
19:10 -!- Krypton [[email protected]] has joined #secondage
19:10 < felix> if anything its a fucking gold sink
19:10 < felix> a really good one.


------
19:12 < felix> its also not zero risk
19:12 < felix> dude
19:12 < felix> wtf
19:12 < felix> its a huge risk
19:12 < felix> if you lose, dont place
19:12 < bizarrorollins> all i want is more events or more activity in general
19:12 < Tron> rares?
19:12 < felix> you dont get a trophy
19:12 < felix> no
19:12 < Tron> oh yeh
19:12 < felix> events
19:12 < Tron> yeh events are a time risk
19:12 < felix> its a time risk

[UnknownLord]

Simple fix, make trophies non tradeable. ATM its far too easy to get gold and makes hunting not worth it. Reguardless if events are every 10 minutes or 10 hours.. its still easy. Make it that if you want a tribal mask etc.. you have to play. If you wana sell points, farm 200, buy a reward THEN sell it. Dont nerf the system, just make it better

[Kylock]

To me it seems like the people who already have several hued/blessed masks want to change the current system... Making it harder to obtain trophies & points altogether.

And as for bringing up the point of (daily) events not being era accurate, neither are a dozen blessed hued masks.


IMO events are fine currently. There are too few of them to do any real "trophy farming" and basically only newer players sell their trophies right after the events. Given there are a few veteran players who don't care much about saving trophies, and sell theirs as well.

Either way I think events should stay how they are now, otherwise it wouldn't be fair to newer players not being able to obtain some of the rewards already handed out.

But if you must remove events, take the already rewarded items out as well.

[Kylock]

Well, I know for a fact it happens, which is the reason I'm saying it. I've seen it happen for a long time, and that is one of the reasons the amount of events has been getting lower and lower ...

Making them non-tradable is pointless only because all of the items on the list can and are being implemented into the regular game play. Why have non-tradable trophies that add more items to the server if they serve no purpose, and only get you items that you should/could be getting with regular game play if you want it?

I disagree.

Not all of those items are being implemented. One of a kind rares? Colored masks? Sandles?

It seems like the people that have these kind of items have no problems with this sytem being taken out. Will you donate your colored masks and items earned via the trophy system to the garbage barrel if they take out this system?

Blackfoot and your black deer mask, colored sandles, and loops, the same thing, since you have both of those items already.

The trophies are awesome, the events are awesome, and the system itself is awesome. I'll stand by that, and I hope others that feel the same make their voice heard too.

I still think there is NO RISK involved in getting rares, you are competing with about 15 others who do the same thing, and you don't even have to go into a dungeon. All rare spawns should be removed, all rares of any kind should be phased out because these only add more items to the server and serve no purpose except driving an economy.... hmmm sounds familiar.

I honestly didn't read this before I made my last post.

I agree entirely.

The rare respawn timer should either be 100% random, or spawn at server restart. I understand server restart would be a bit much, but there could be a way to set that up as well. Like making them cycle out only 2-3 spawning per day of the 20+ spawns that are out there.

Example:

Rares to spawn

Day 1: rope, horse dung, tall candle

Day 2: shackles, hanging armor, empty basket

Day 3: damaged books, pot of wax, full jars

With a system like that rare finding would almost entirely be luck based.

You'd see more people on @ server restart recalling to 20ish different locations looking to see which 3 spots actually spawned, not knowing if someone else had already got to it.

Might make rare hunting actually fun, and a REAL hobby - instead of the current people getting the timers down and hording them, or even having a spare client stand on the spawn scavenging them.

[Fwerp]

Yeah, there is no risk, but 50% of the time you're going to waste your time. I'll just reiterate that I think it helps the server population to keep the current system intact, and that new players are greatly aided by the trophies. I will again say that the money I was able to get selling event trophies as a fledgling character impacted my decision to continue playing here.

[BlackFoot]

remember i made the arguement against trophy ssytem long before i traded in for anything almost a year ago, try and keep this thread from turning into a 'he got his'
consider them a vet reward for people playing here for so long
hued masks were era accurate (also lots of other items seers created)
blessing them with deeds was also era accurate
trophys arent a gold sink by any means, if you think they are you dont understand what a gold sink is

this was a thread about how trophys have an impact on the economy or how to make them more fair for all players to aquire not about vets with leet items

edit: regarding the spawning rares there is a seperate thread ongoing about that

[Jaster]

Would I give my mask in? ... Sure ... only if you give all the gold back that you got from trophy points that you've sold, since you don't have anything to show for the amount of events you are at ...

Long before I had my mask was I trying to get rid of the amount of events that we've had, and also tried to get rid of trophy points because all they did was give players something to do outside of the realm of actual game play. If you don't believe that, think about how we use to have 60 events a week and now have 22? How we have maybe 1 or 2 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 tourneys a month? ... these are things that I usually get a trophy from 9 times out of 10 and I am still trying to get rid of them.

Events can stay for a fun factor and learning experience, but like I've said, black sandals are being talked about, black tubs were implemented, all of the rares exist in the game in some shape/form ... the Unique rares and hued masks do not, nor do the neon sandals ... but we shouldn't have to remove these items from the game from those players have that already gotten stuff.

As previously stated, removing these items would mean everyone would have to have their gold deleted that sold trophy points, their skills reverted to the values before they had the gold to work skills that they got from trophy points etc. Is that what you want? ... I think not ...

... but it seems you do want to acquire these items that you all are so against other players having that have been trying to remove these systems since before they acquired them on their own.

[Kylock]

I'll throw 500k away if that's what ya want.

I wasn't tryin to single you boys out you should know that, i'm just pointing some things out.

Trophies and events aren't really hurting the economy, if anything they're a goldsink

Other things should be worried about more; people hording ingots/boards to the point where they sell for less than npc prices, and pvp accuracy