Whats the deal with PvP

[Faust]

Play however you want O'Mallory...

Don't start talking shit when you're referred to as a gimp or nobody though..

[Michael Malloy]

Play however you want O'Mallory...

Don't start talking shit when you're referred to as a gimp or nobody though..

Please point to where I was talking shit. Once again you resort to name-calling and avoiding questions. This is why people do not take you seriously.

Thanks for playing, I thought maybe you'd grown up a little, son.

[Faust]

I said don't start talking shit... when you're referred to as a gimp or nobody... I never said that you were talking smack or "called" you a name. I have no clue who you are and don't really care at this moment to resort to anything like that towards you..

[Michael Malloy]

My bad, I misunderstood that last post completely. Still waking up. =/

Either way its obvious you're set in your ways, but I commend you for keeping things relatively civil. Just putting my thoughts out there.

[Faust]

Who are you in game out of curiousity?

[Michael Malloy]

I PvP with Mose when I actually log in. Haven't been on in a couple of weeks though. And yes, I do suck, but I like the rush PvP gives you.

[Eulogy]

I only read OP's post.

IMO the duel rules are in place because its more fun to duel tank mage vs tank mage than any other combination.

Most of the time in duels between any kind of dexer and a tank mage, the tank mage either owns the dexer or is outlasted and bested by the dexer. Either of which aren't much fun.

A good tank mage duel is like a fencing duel, with the roles of offense and defense going back and forth until the better person wins.

[ArchaicSubrosa]

I was curious what everyones problem is with the various styles of PvP. I am probably one of the least PvPing people on the shard, with the exception of Wise, and some of the other Crafter/PvM'ers, although I do have a Macer-Tank still in training. in any case, taking a look at it from an outside point of view, I see a few common templates.

You have the Tank mages using various weapons, even archery. They suffer from low dex, but make up for it by utilizing the 2 second re-equip swing and by holstering some of the most packed Total-Refresh stuffed backpacks I have ever seen.

Then there are the pure dexers, it seems that the most productive have some form of magery and make use of poisoned weapons. Some have Parry, some even have the poisoning skill to re-apply poison while moving. The current downfall as I understand it is the sometimes inability to kill someone before they recall, as the swing timer does not advance while moving.

Finally there is another catagory, that we used to call hybrids back on osi. I hear it called medi-dexer here however. These are like normal, bandaid-using, dexers, but they are also users of Magery coupled with Meditation, and I have seen some with eval, but that doesnt seem common. They tend to have only enough mana to cast a couple of Greater Heals at once.

It looks like a classic game of rock-paper-scissor from my standpoint. Equally played, Tank mages should have the upper hand on Dexers, as the dexer cannot heal quickly, and the capability of the tank to put out high damage in a small amount of time is damaging. Toss in the poison spell, and they become extremelt potion-reliant, at least until they run out of potions and possibly die from missing too many times in a row.

The Dexer has a clear advantage over the Medi-dexer. Armor reduces or eliminated the medi's mana regeneration rate, so naturally they sport little or none. The dexer can interupt the medi-dexer while he/she casts, due to the lack of wrestling. Without the ability to cast, the medidexer is quite defenseless to a fast weapon, that is likely poisoned, and they also lost a great deal amount of damage vs an opponent with parry.

The medi-dexer however, can be the crux of the Tank mages. They have endurance, they can keep swinging on a tank mage and interupt their 2-second weapon hits, while being able to heal, supplimented by bandaids, an ability not typical on the straight-dexer. Naturally, as they rely on casting heal/cure/debuff spells, they are likely to keep one precasted, in the same way a tank would have explode or something cast.

Here is what I am curious about. If a dexer attacks a Tank Mage and sticks to them using attack-last, they get ousted as using poor tactics, even if they are victorious. A medi-dexer, whos template is created around pre-casting heal, will be criticized substantially for pre-casting the very heal that may deem him victorious. The tank mage, can be ousted for using either one of those tactics as well.

The three major templates there all have a weapon skill. Fencing is common with poisoners but seems to suffer from a low magic-weapon drop. Swords is popular because of the speed of the katana, as well as the high damage of the hally, plus they are poisonable. Macing, deals out some low damage numbers, but the speed and damage over time of the quarterstaff are great, and the stamina-draining effect can be devestating. Archery, is very slow, due to it's lack of insta-refresh, but can be greay on a dexer for a killing blow, or for a tank mage that roams in a group.

The rules of PvP.
Ok, so you cannot pre-cast heal. Ok, well why not?? It's okay to precast and hold explode, but not heal? I understand this makes fights long and drawn out, but this is clearly biased agains medi-dexers and other defensive playstyles.

No poison or potions allowed...
Ok, well the dexer is screwed for the most part then, unless they sport some magery, there is a good chance the floor will be wiped with them.

..except for Red Pots.
WHAT? Ok, so your saying, a heal potion, that a dexer relies on, cannot be used, but a red potion, that a tank mage would NEED to survive agains a macer of any sort are completely okay? Even though the tank chose to have such a low amount of dex, directly effecting his stamina to begin with? How does that work?


Clearly all of these strategies, have some distinct advantages. A tank mage had better kill a macer before their stamina runs out, a dexer had better do a great job of staying on top of a tank mage/mage or else they risk being destroyed by a Hally-swingin-fastcast-parade, and a medidexer would be lucky to even kill someone with such a low damage output, and while poisoning and macing helps, they cannot re-apply poison and will run out of weapons, and opponents can defend agains the mace-stamina loss.

It all seems logically even from this standpoint, but the rules of "PvP" are completely in favor of the Tank Mage. Why is this?

I'm not trying to make a bash against tank-mages, or any other styles of play. (Heck, I play a tank mage, rather poorly), I was just wondering what everyone elses thoughts on this are and how it came to be like this.

I just ran up against a macer dexxer who thought he stole all my bandages and I consider myself a tank mage. But instead of going 100 25 100 with my stats I have a 99 63 63 which balances out well. Though my character is more of a hold your ground heal and support, be ready when they break through the lines type of template in some scenerios you just get lucky. There was some stamina damage but in the end I was victorious because I didn't just go with strengthening just my primary stats.
Your characters aren't supposed to be do it yourself-ers. This is supposed to be an interactive game, a cooperative game. PVP happens because as I see so often too many people are going out solo...and the main interaction most people get is through combat or annoyance. Which some have made into an art granted.
Yet I am new, and yet reconfiguring yet another template idea because of this reason so what do I know.

[Envy]

Dueling should be as basic as possible to keep it as "skill" oriented as possible in UO. Potions only serve the purpose of extending the duel. DP is kind of silly to assume its fair in a duel. Para/Magic Reflect spells shouldn't be cast.

For those of you claiming its all about winning or looting or whatever you're missing the point of what dueling was about in the t2a era; gameness.

I just started here with a few guildmates but I am confident we'll be making a splash at the pvp scene. I'm a big fan of duels but its good to see some people here don't respect the common rules.

the purpose of the restrctions is to provide a structure where two people are on equal footing hence the most skilled player should win. It's not about getting the kill or getting the regs etc. If you cannot understand that you really never got a large part of the game.

BTW anyone play Chesapeake in t2a/uor?

[IdleBlade]

Ok, so I'm terrible in PVP, I get owned anytime I even try. But I'll say this, there are NO rules in PVP out in the field. If you want to set up some custom "rules" to duel, whatever, that's between two consenting players. But in the rest of the game, PVP means the surviver is the winner.

[macil22]

Well i'm several days late to this argument but its an interesting discussion so i'll toss my 2 cents into the pot.

Faust, I disagree with you. UO along with every other game in existence is meant to be played to the extent permitted by the rules of the game. It is not cheese to use heal pots, poison or anything else that fits within the rules of t2a UO. If you want a purely skill based pvp game then I suggest you play Quake or another one of the very fine fps games on the market.

Using GH pots is no more cheese than someone taking a quad damage powerup in a Quake death match. As for your baseball question, pro players use everything they can to gain an advantage as long as it does not break any rules. Nothing anyone suggested is equivalent to a pro player using a metal bat. However what you suggest is equivalent to asking pro players to use bowling shoes instead of cleats. In other words you are asking people not to use things that they ought to be able to use according to the rules of the game.

And if we are on the topic of cheesey pvp then to be perfectly honest most of t2a pvp was cheese and a heckuva lot of changes made in uor were in fact good changes. Now before anyone insults me or tells me to play somewhere else, I think t2a is superior to uor but the biggest change that ruined the game was trammel. That doesn't mean everything that was changed in uor was crap. Atleast everyone wasn't running around with a cookie-cutter tank mage. Now i'm not in any way suggesting anything gets changed from t2a and I like the fact that this shard has a well defined set of goals. I am merely pointing out that anyone who thinks that any era of uo is or ever was a skill based pvp game is a fool. That doesn't mean there isn't skill involved because there certainly is and it makes a big difference but the wide open nature of the game is precisely what made uo different from games like Quake.

[Deus Atamada]

im sick of people pointing out the age of this game. If its so "old" and "washed up" WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING ON THE FORUMS AND IN THE GAME. GET A NEW ARGUMENT AS TO WHY U PREP G HEAL, AND ARE A SHIT PVPER AND DONT THINK YOUR UO RESPECT MATTERS. BECAUSE YOU HAVE NONE.

[macil22]

could you say that a little bit louder please? I couldn't quite hear you.

[grimsk]

The only thing that matters in PvP are winners win and losers lose. Winners get ousted as not having a lot of skill because they use tactics that some people find unseemly. Fact is, if you win a 1v1 fight using any tactics allowed by the game (save for bugs,glitching,euo, etc.) you're better, period. If the other person was better, they would have won.

There were a bunch of retarded c/o kids back in T2A who always cried about how DP wasn't fair, pots, etc. My guild was spammed constantly for being bad because we steamrolled people 1v1, 2v2, 10 v1(us 10), and used everything at our disposal to do so. DP, pots, boxes, wall of stoning people on sideline mages who couldn't do shit in town, explo pot combos.

It boils down to the rules were made by people who felt they were more skilled, except they couldn't use everything available so they made up rules so inside of their ruleset they could pretend they were good. It was entertaining and will be in the future once I get my pvp char finished, been slacking off making a cartog and other char recently though =\.

Anyway, the only rule of PvP is win. After that, it's all player bullshit which doesn't mean jack at the end of the day.

Well congrats you described a scrubs . Or if you prefeer an underachiever.Someone with the potential but lacking the desire/effort or lazy folk that don't want to use everything to their advantage..Blaming life/time or anything else.Or simply because they're lazy.In my case it's lazyness right now .I know what i should do to win . But i'm simply to lazy to make it work . Carrying potion .. having the right macro .. casting the right thing .. using the rpoisonned weapons and the explo pot macro ready.Bah .. it's just BAh you know?I don't want to make the effort right now.But i don't cry when i get pwn .. i just laff and move on.

Or maybe it's because of the pace.i want to pvp/pve at my pace and i'm just that lazy,The other day for exemple someone died in my party (we were pve'ing) and it's took me 3-4 minutes noticing him ) .. Yeah he was pissed .But you know all those mob was keeping my brain busy .He told me that i suck(i need good player in my guild he said ... ) .. Well ...Okay ... whatever.. I just don't get anything seriously haha.

What i know it's healing = not enough to survive any pk's lol . It's never pop .15 seconds that retardly long lol.PVp without Magery it's a death wish.
That the only thing i always hated with uo . Without Magery PVE or PVp ... You just under do everything .. farming/pvp'ing/Moving ...

Also what i realized while drinking my cup of coffee .. Without recalling and moongates .. Uo would be a complety different game.
lol

[Goose]

I like how there's alot of discussion about skill in the game. As far as i am concerned, in the field, anything goes, whatever needs to be done to win, especially if you are the one getting pk'd.

Now for everyone who is talking about skill in this, the skill is called razor. with 1 push of a button you can cast, wait, and "apply". You don't need to actually cast, and then click yourself. with pots, you press button once, it unarms, drinks and arms again.

not saying people don't have skill, but with razor, skill isn't anything to what it used to be on OSI. There are probably many players who do well in this UO but could barely take 4 steps outside town on OSI before getting killed and not getting back in to town fast enough. The skill required with razor is a fraction to what was needed in OSI. Does anyone know a UO shard these days that is free and doesn't use razor? i certainly don't. i don't think there is even 1.

As far as all the precasting, poison, pots, etc, out in the field its all good, and those who don't agree, doesn't bother me. you can't equip, or are too lazy, or can't afford, whatever your excuse is, step up and adapt, or get used to losing.

duel are completely different. some require some rules others don't, up to those who are dueling. complaining about pots, poison and all, that is like complaining and crying about getting ganked 4 to 1 and losing. part of the game, the game allows it, use it.